Tekin Brushless testing!
07-01-2006, 05:12 AM
#31
Tech Apprentice
Lets see... The Mamba Max is out now... I say Tekin will need some time to look at that, tweek theirs to what they think is better and then is say 8-10 mo. release theirs.
Theirs will have a few "bugs" that people will need to send back to fix.
On the other hand, if the Mamba Max has bugs ( I doubt it will) people can update the software themselves wit the link. My LHS has a link & the software and does this free fro the less fortunate so if you don't have a computer you are still good to go.
Bottom line...
Go Castle Creations Mamba Max
Theirs will have a few "bugs" that people will need to send back to fix.
On the other hand, if the Mamba Max has bugs ( I doubt it will) people can update the software themselves wit the link. My LHS has a link & the software and does this free fro the less fortunate so if you don't have a computer you are still good to go.
Bottom line...
Go Castle Creations Mamba Max
07-01-2006, 06:48 AM
#32
Tech Rookie
Is there any chance that all of these emerging brushless systems will reduce prices from competition amongst themselves?
07-01-2006, 07:29 AM
#33
Tech Adept
I do as TurboJoe says, use the USB Mamba for the general programming, much easier than Tekins, but yes if I am at a track, I tend to only change things on the M8 radio I have, which is still even easier than tuning the Tekin.
I am saying it is nice to be able to infinitely adjust MAMBA on a PC, that is not possible on the Tekin, you get to pick from stock, this includes drag brake, throttle curve, timing, power, everything.
The Tekin Mini only has profiles to select. Yeah 13 profiles for drag on the Tekin, but between 20% and 100% there are more than 13 options on my Mamba (selectable in increments of 1%). Throttle/brake, only 7 profiles, the Mamba is infinitely adjustable and they are seperately adjusted.
I'm trying to get the point across that having the USB link is important to me and many other racers. With a USB link you could add in some telemetry to an ESC and plug it into a PC and print it, try plugging in a Tekin, oh yeah no ports. The Mamba's firmware changes, meaning new programming and features with the USB its easy for the user to update, try that with Tekin's, if they had new features you'd have to send it to them to flash it.
I am saying it is nice to be able to infinitely adjust MAMBA on a PC, that is not possible on the Tekin, you get to pick from stock, this includes drag brake, throttle curve, timing, power, everything.
The Tekin Mini only has profiles to select. Yeah 13 profiles for drag on the Tekin, but between 20% and 100% there are more than 13 options on my Mamba (selectable in increments of 1%). Throttle/brake, only 7 profiles, the Mamba is infinitely adjustable and they are seperately adjusted.
I'm trying to get the point across that having the USB link is important to me and many other racers. With a USB link you could add in some telemetry to an ESC and plug it into a PC and print it, try plugging in a Tekin, oh yeah no ports. The Mamba's firmware changes, meaning new programming and features with the USB its easy for the user to update, try that with Tekin's, if they had new features you'd have to send it to them to flash it.
07-01-2006, 08:53 AM
#34
Im glad my post had the affect it did.Maybe a lil wake up call.
BinaryTerror-I totally understand as others do that there are certain NICE things about the Mamba.But lets get real.Do you understand that less than 1% of the drivers in the industry could tell between a setting at 20% and 25% or heck I will even say only 2% can tell between a setting of 20-30% on alot of the settings so going by 1's is you guess it my friend.
USELESS....
The only beef I have with you is this.Your statement is FALSE...
"use the USB Mamba for the general programming, much easier than Tekins"
This is a BLATANT LIE.Have you ever even OWNED a tekin because if you have you would say the Tekin is easier hands down based on COMMON SENSE.How can you sit here and say that hooking a esc up to a computer is easier than pushing a few buttons and taking less than 10 seconds to actually SET and less than a minute to program.The Tekin Doesnt lag as where a TON of Mamba's DOOOOOOOOO......
Admit it.Your a computer nerd or a tecno freak that loves gadgets...Well you guessed it.I DO TO.But I at least have COMMON SENSE to know that alot of times it's too much.
You dont need alot of those settings.Novak found this out REAL QUICK...
Do I like the Tekin Better?Yes because BESIDES not having USB it beats the Mamba in every category.Look at the quality of components used in both and then get back to me.It's almost a JOKE.
Would I like to see Tekin have what they have with the addition of USB sure.
But to 85-90% of the industry they could care less about computer programming and are SMART ENOUGH to realize that you can only feel certain adjustments.
Main point here Is I hope all you guys enjoy your brushless systems.But you COMPUTER NERDS need to realize less than 20% of the industry cares about that stuff.
While you may THINK people that have digital camera's know what USB is I will state you are WRONG...Thats why they had to come out with DOCKING stations to make it even easier.
So just because YOU may know doesnt mean everyone else does.I just hate this attitude of it's so easy because YOU KNOW.Do I know???Sure I do but I dont go thinking everyone else does BECAUSE I do.Thats stupid and idiotic.
Disclaimer- I dont have the TIME nor the CARE to be PC or be just about anything.I say it like it is sometimes.It's my personallity.
Anyone that knows me knows that I will help with anything and one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.Please dont take anything I say personal.Its a debate as well as a Forum.
Les
BinaryTerror-I totally understand as others do that there are certain NICE things about the Mamba.But lets get real.Do you understand that less than 1% of the drivers in the industry could tell between a setting at 20% and 25% or heck I will even say only 2% can tell between a setting of 20-30% on alot of the settings so going by 1's is you guess it my friend.
USELESS....
The only beef I have with you is this.Your statement is FALSE...
"use the USB Mamba for the general programming, much easier than Tekins"
This is a BLATANT LIE.Have you ever even OWNED a tekin because if you have you would say the Tekin is easier hands down based on COMMON SENSE.How can you sit here and say that hooking a esc up to a computer is easier than pushing a few buttons and taking less than 10 seconds to actually SET and less than a minute to program.The Tekin Doesnt lag as where a TON of Mamba's DOOOOOOOOO......
Admit it.Your a computer nerd or a tecno freak that loves gadgets...Well you guessed it.I DO TO.But I at least have COMMON SENSE to know that alot of times it's too much.
You dont need alot of those settings.Novak found this out REAL QUICK...
Do I like the Tekin Better?Yes because BESIDES not having USB it beats the Mamba in every category.Look at the quality of components used in both and then get back to me.It's almost a JOKE.
Would I like to see Tekin have what they have with the addition of USB sure.
But to 85-90% of the industry they could care less about computer programming and are SMART ENOUGH to realize that you can only feel certain adjustments.
Main point here Is I hope all you guys enjoy your brushless systems.But you COMPUTER NERDS need to realize less than 20% of the industry cares about that stuff.
While you may THINK people that have digital camera's know what USB is I will state you are WRONG...Thats why they had to come out with DOCKING stations to make it even easier.
So just because YOU may know doesnt mean everyone else does.I just hate this attitude of it's so easy because YOU KNOW.Do I know???Sure I do but I dont go thinking everyone else does BECAUSE I do.Thats stupid and idiotic.
Disclaimer- I dont have the TIME nor the CARE to be PC or be just about anything.I say it like it is sometimes.It's my personallity.
Anyone that knows me knows that I will help with anything and one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.Please dont take anything I say personal.Its a debate as well as a Forum.
Les
07-01-2006, 09:22 AM
#35
Tech Adept
And yet TexRacer is egotistical enough to miss my point. Sure maybe you love the Tekin's programming, but at this point asking the Tekin guys for a PC hook up is giving them positive feedback.
You are right I don't own a Tekin Mini system, why? Because it won't fit in the car I run. Thanks Tekin for making it gigantic. I have helped tune one at the track, yes its easier to tune than the Mamba in car tuning, that I will give you. But to me plugging in the Mamba to my PC is easier than the Tekin, sorry.
GENERIC thoughts on in-car vs. USB ability:
I can save multiple throttle and brake curves and settings so when I change tracks going back to one that I really like I can bring back the settings quicker than re-programming and in car interface. I don't run 1 track all the time and I often switch from dirt to carpet (stadium with jumps), so having the ability to plug in the night before and swap the settings is so simple. Telemtry options could be added, not so with out a PC hook up. Real racers look for this, sure 90% of the Brushless mini guys will only bash, but when the Brushless craze runs into 1/10th the same way the racers will want the best. 1/10th will find its way to more racing than simple pure bashing.
You are right I don't own a Tekin Mini system, why? Because it won't fit in the car I run. Thanks Tekin for making it gigantic. I have helped tune one at the track, yes its easier to tune than the Mamba in car tuning, that I will give you. But to me plugging in the Mamba to my PC is easier than the Tekin, sorry.
GENERIC thoughts on in-car vs. USB ability:
I can save multiple throttle and brake curves and settings so when I change tracks going back to one that I really like I can bring back the settings quicker than re-programming and in car interface. I don't run 1 track all the time and I often switch from dirt to carpet (stadium with jumps), so having the ability to plug in the night before and swap the settings is so simple. Telemtry options could be added, not so with out a PC hook up. Real racers look for this, sure 90% of the Brushless mini guys will only bash, but when the Brushless craze runs into 1/10th the same way the racers will want the best. 1/10th will find its way to more racing than simple pure bashing.
07-01-2006, 09:24 AM
#36
Tech Apprentice
I own a Mini Rage and a Mamba and HANDS DOWN, with the USB link, the MAMBA is MUCH eaiser to program. This is not a false statement or a lie. For me, and many thers, that is FACT. 90% of the people where I race use the Mamba because of the Firmware updates and ease of programing. Yes, many do not own a link, but a few guys bring a laptop and they help everyone out. Plus, the shop will do it for them free too.
I will agree that MOST people can't tell the difference between the "fine tuning" between some of the settings, but it sure is nice to have. The same can be said for the adjustments available on the Mamba.
Some of the Pros will run 22.5 wt shock oil. Why not 20 or 25? They feel a difference MOST people can't feel.
The same can be said for the adjustments available on the Mamba, some people can feel the difference. If they could not we would all run the same shock oil and settings, right?
I am sure peole will not be offended being called computer nerds, but those who have over 1000 posts on RCTECH.Net should look in the mirror before they call others names.
As far as components. Have you ever taken apart a Mini Rage and a Mambe? I have and they are ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME!!! The main difference are the 2 push buttons for programing. I would be willing to bet that the same place makes them both.
I will agree that MOST people can't tell the difference between the "fine tuning" between some of the settings, but it sure is nice to have. The same can be said for the adjustments available on the Mamba.
Some of the Pros will run 22.5 wt shock oil. Why not 20 or 25? They feel a difference MOST people can't feel.
The same can be said for the adjustments available on the Mamba, some people can feel the difference. If they could not we would all run the same shock oil and settings, right?
I am sure peole will not be offended being called computer nerds, but those who have over 1000 posts on RCTECH.Net should look in the mirror before they call others names.
As far as components. Have you ever taken apart a Mini Rage and a Mambe? I have and they are ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME!!! The main difference are the 2 push buttons for programing. I would be willing to bet that the same place makes them both.
07-01-2006, 09:32 AM
#37
i think that many of the tecno geeks are excited about this stuff because they feel that with all of these fine adjustments they will have an edge. all i can say is you are wrong. of course an esc needs to be adjustable to work with the type of cars you run and your personal driving style but if you are constantly making esc adjustments to set up your car you will never learn throttle / brake control like you will if you just adjust your finger on the trigger.
almost all of the high level drivers i know set up their escs with a few adjustments and then they race. and before you say that i am one of those guys stuck in the dark ages, i have a novak 5.5 gtb in my losi mf2 and a novak hv maxx brushless in my converted electric revo. current speed controls already have enough adjustability to be competitive, no esc adjustments will ever replace correct tire and suspension choices.
almost all of the high level drivers i know set up their escs with a few adjustments and then they race. and before you say that i am one of those guys stuck in the dark ages, i have a novak 5.5 gtb in my losi mf2 and a novak hv maxx brushless in my converted electric revo. current speed controls already have enough adjustability to be competitive, no esc adjustments will ever replace correct tire and suspension choices.
07-01-2006, 10:02 AM
#38
From a racers point of view, i would have to agree with Texracer and Kvrc and like one of them said, some of those fine tuning things i didnt even bother to use. Just as long it runs well and not too far from the normal setup.
I can sympathise how some of these gadget freaks get a little excited with all those things you can fiddle about with just so you get a buzz or think it will make you a little faster but the bottom line is, nothing will replace the art of fine tuning and driving the car. You can bet your bottom dollar that if you give one of the pro's a non high frequency speedo's (remember those?) he will still be up there, he'll just require a little more motor maintainance.
horses for courses
I can sympathise how some of these gadget freaks get a little excited with all those things you can fiddle about with just so you get a buzz or think it will make you a little faster but the bottom line is, nothing will replace the art of fine tuning and driving the car. You can bet your bottom dollar that if you give one of the pro's a non high frequency speedo's (remember those?) he will still be up there, he'll just require a little more motor maintainance.
horses for courses
07-01-2006, 01:26 PM
#39
It's not a "gadget freak" thing, any more than Windows is a "gadget freak" thing versus using DOS. It's just a very simple and quick way to do the programming and the ONLY way you can install software updates or changes.
What you think happens when people send their Spektrum modules in? Would you pay $20 to be able to do them all yourself at home in 5 minutes? Of course, Tekin has never had to update a speed control, so this of course wouldn't apply to them...they always get it right the first time, right?
Does anyone besides me find it ironic that there are so many Luddites posting on an internet RC web board, ostensibly all using computers, making comments about how USB technology that makes programming an electronic speed controller easier is a just a gadget for "techies".
Anyone who's used the USB features on a Mamba can attest to how easy/simple it is...it's a $20 option (for the cable), so if you don't want to use it, you don't have to.
What you think happens when people send their Spektrum modules in? Would you pay $20 to be able to do them all yourself at home in 5 minutes? Of course, Tekin has never had to update a speed control, so this of course wouldn't apply to them...they always get it right the first time, right?
Does anyone besides me find it ironic that there are so many Luddites posting on an internet RC web board, ostensibly all using computers, making comments about how USB technology that makes programming an electronic speed controller easier is a just a gadget for "techies".
Anyone who's used the USB features on a Mamba can attest to how easy/simple it is...it's a $20 option (for the cable), so if you don't want to use it, you don't have to.
07-01-2006, 08:25 PM
#40
Know USB ?
I have no idea where Tex got the stats for computer literacy, but plugging in a USB cable should be a simple mindless task.
My 9 years old nephew can do it so it can't be all that difficult. Aren't most RC hobbyist somewhat technically inclined ? I am a Sales manager and computer aren't all that difficult.
I find the name calling ( COMPUTER GEEKS ) ridiculous. If you have problems setting up some USB cable and simple parameters, I 'd hate to see your car 's setup.
My 9 years old nephew can do it so it can't be all that difficult. Aren't most RC hobbyist somewhat technically inclined ? I am a Sales manager and computer aren't all that difficult.
I find the name calling ( COMPUTER GEEKS ) ridiculous. If you have problems setting up some USB cable and simple parameters, I 'd hate to see your car 's setup.
07-01-2006, 11:23 PM
#41
The USB feature is pretty cool for software upgrades. Other then that in my opinion it's for the "tweaker" in you.
Like I was saying before "different strokes for different folks." Tweak all the esc's settings you want. I still find it on the crazy size to "need" a laptop to adjust the features of my esc.
I do find it interesting on how everyone is so adamit about proving each other wrong instead of simply agreeing to disagree.
Don't take/make it personal. Name calling will only show your true maturity.
Like I was saying before "different strokes for different folks." Tweak all the esc's settings you want. I still find it on the crazy size to "need" a laptop to adjust the features of my esc.
I do find it interesting on how everyone is so adamit about proving each other wrong instead of simply agreeing to disagree.
Don't take/make it personal. Name calling will only show your true maturity.
07-01-2006, 11:58 PM
#42
Originally Posted by Randy Pike
The USB feature is pretty cool for software upgrades. Other then that in my opinion it's for the "tweaker" in you.
Like I was saying before "different strokes for different folks." Tweak all the esc's settings you want. I still find it on the crazy size to "need" a laptop to adjust the features of my esc.
I do find it interesting on how everyone is so adamit about proving each other wrong instead of simply agreeing to disagree.
Don't take/make it personal. Name calling will only show your true maturity.
Like I was saying before "different strokes for different folks." Tweak all the esc's settings you want. I still find it on the crazy size to "need" a laptop to adjust the features of my esc.
I do find it interesting on how everyone is so adamit about proving each other wrong instead of simply agreeing to disagree.
Don't take/make it personal. Name calling will only show your true maturity.
Again...you don't NEED to use a computer for anything, aside from updating software/firmware (otherwise, you'd need to mail it in) or doing advanced settings (custom throttle/brake profiles).
You can do all the basic stuff (timing, brake levels, reverse on/off, etc.) with the button and LED routine...but why? You do have a computer, don't you? Even the one you're renting by the minute at Kinko's has a USB port, setting up the whole deal takes 5 minutes, tops and maybe 30 seconds to program the ESC.
As for the "tweaker" deal...that's not a compliment these days. But as to what I think you're getting at -- yeah, I'm sure you're just one of those "slap it together and go", basher-type RC racers, right? Adjusting your suspension with pliers (by eye, of course) and using a mechanical speed control. Hey, it gets the job done, right?
RC is the hobby of choice for the people you call "tweakers" (not the methamphetamine-using type, of course). In fact, I bet you're a "tweaker" yourself.
07-02-2006, 09:51 AM
#43
Why are you guys going off about how bad a USB cable is just because the Tekin dosent have it? The Mamba can be adjusted the same as a Tekin but can also be plugged into the computer. Why is it bad to have options? Also how many people cant live without sitting there and changing how your ESC is programmed 10 seconds before the race? If you depend that much on your ESC to have to change one little thing why not just have the car drive it self? Its more about you driving than having one little adjustment on your ESC right before the race. I'm not saying programming an ESC is bad but people who constantly sit there and change it for every little detal for every race need to focus more on there driving than trying to get your ESC to fix it.
07-02-2006, 11:30 AM
#44
Why don't you guys just learn to drive and setup your car? I promise you that time spent learning to control your throtle will be much faster then the time you spend learning how to set up your speed control for various tracks. As long as you bring a car with a dialed in setup and a good smooth esc there shouldn't be a problem. As far as the mamba/tekin comparison is concerned I would typicaly choose the tekin in the past just because they are bullet proof. However, the mini mamba systems have proven to be bullet proof and for the price they are very tough to beat. If you are more concerned about the throtle curve of your esc then your driving skills and car setup then you probly need to pick up a 2wd car and learn to drive.
07-02-2006, 06:53 PM
#45
My reference to "tweaker" is one who likes to tinker with everything that is adjustable and some that are not.
Yes, I am a tweaker. I don't go to meetings though(not yet anyhow). It was not a put down by any sense. Some people are just as you described and simply put it in and go. I am not one of them. I do like being able to download the newest operating software, I admit that that is cool. I am well aware that you don't NEED the pc.
I don't make it a habbit to adjust anything 10 second before the race. If you are that unprepared you have time management issues. Unless it's at a large race where you are running back to back runs and are switching motors in your chassis and you need to tame down the esc. This I have been know to be guilty/unfortunate. This thread has gotten out of hand quickly as it was not inteded to be a beat on your chest like an ape and show who's better thread.
I've not yet driven the Mamba nor have I seen one in use by someone other then Castle. Same goes for Tekin(however I've run it so I know). I just thought tha the general public would like to know how well the "testing" is/was going and that is should be out very soon.
Yes, I am a tweaker. I don't go to meetings though(not yet anyhow). It was not a put down by any sense. Some people are just as you described and simply put it in and go. I am not one of them. I do like being able to download the newest operating software, I admit that that is cool. I am well aware that you don't NEED the pc.
I don't make it a habbit to adjust anything 10 second before the race. If you are that unprepared you have time management issues. Unless it's at a large race where you are running back to back runs and are switching motors in your chassis and you need to tame down the esc. This I have been know to be guilty/unfortunate. This thread has gotten out of hand quickly as it was not inteded to be a beat on your chest like an ape and show who's better thread.
I've not yet driven the Mamba nor have I seen one in use by someone other then Castle. Same goes for Tekin(however I've run it so I know). I just thought tha the general public would like to know how well the "testing" is/was going and that is should be out very soon.