Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
10-26-2006, 09:14 AM
#421
I put some links up in my previous post to the Videos.
Here is a link to a longer discussion of Pan Car vs Touring car.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2657877&highlight=run+couple+cars #post2657877
Here is a link to a longer discussion of Pan Car vs Touring car.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2657877&highlight=run+couple+cars #post2657877
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-26-2006 at 09:57 AM.
10-26-2006, 09:34 AM
#422
could someone post some new videos of a 1/10 or 1/12 pan? and are they sole racers? or are they parking lot worthy too? if not then i will probly stick with tc, but if they can handle normal pavement and parking lots, im deff gonna try to hook up with one.
10-26-2006, 04:36 PM
#423
Servo Flat Mod
I decided to see what it would take to run the servo flat. I used a one piece Aluminum Servo mount from a TC3. Cut the transponder ear off. It takes about 1/2 inch of spacers on the steering arms to remove bump steer. Seems to be rigid enough. I used a female ball stud and a long button head screw on each arm. Ackerman seems OK. I'll test it on the track this weekend. It has rained all week since my last post. Chassis required a clearance cut for the servo horn. A smaller servo saver would probably be the ticket for this mod. This is a heavy duty Kimbrough model. I used one factory hole on the chassis for the servo mount. I drilled and countersunk the right hand hole.
Running the servo high caused it too move around in the slippery mounts a bit. Never had this problem with another car.
I decided to see what it would take to run the servo flat. I used a one piece Aluminum Servo mount from a TC3. Cut the transponder ear off. It takes about 1/2 inch of spacers on the steering arms to remove bump steer. Seems to be rigid enough. I used a female ball stud and a long button head screw on each arm. Ackerman seems OK. I'll test it on the track this weekend. It has rained all week since my last post. Chassis required a clearance cut for the servo horn. A smaller servo saver would probably be the ticket for this mod. This is a heavy duty Kimbrough model. I used one factory hole on the chassis for the servo mount. I drilled and countersunk the right hand hole.
Running the servo high caused it too move around in the slippery mounts a bit. Never had this problem with another car.
10-26-2006, 06:24 PM
#424
Murdoch Racing, Wind Tunnel Body Works, Springs, Kingpins, Steering Blocks
I got the parts in. Here is a pic with the long travel parts on the left. I used a single stiff (purple) Progressive spring. Only the last 1/8 inch of travel is progressive. This should be perfect as it will only be progressive on hard bumps. I used a 1/8 inch reamer on the steering block to make it free on the kingpin. I beveled and reamed reliefs so the suspension will not bind on full travel.
One item was unexpected. The axles are now in the same plane as the kingpin rather than trailing. This is supposed to make the steering more aggresive. This is probably OK with me on the wide pan car. Not on the narrow pan car.
PROGRESSIVE SPRINGS
(smooth transit tri-rate, conical)
$2.50 per pair
#WT2901 4#-6# Orange
#WT2902 6#-8# Blue
#WT2903 8#-10# White
#WT2904 10#-12# Red
#WT2905 11#-13# Green
#WT2906 12#-14# Purple
#WT2907 16#-18# Silver
I got the parts in. Here is a pic with the long travel parts on the left. I used a single stiff (purple) Progressive spring. Only the last 1/8 inch of travel is progressive. This should be perfect as it will only be progressive on hard bumps. I used a 1/8 inch reamer on the steering block to make it free on the kingpin. I beveled and reamed reliefs so the suspension will not bind on full travel.
One item was unexpected. The axles are now in the same plane as the kingpin rather than trailing. This is supposed to make the steering more aggresive. This is probably OK with me on the wide pan car. Not on the narrow pan car.
PROGRESSIVE SPRINGS
(smooth transit tri-rate, conical)
$2.50 per pair
#WT2901 4#-6# Orange
#WT2902 6#-8# Blue
#WT2903 8#-10# White
#WT2904 10#-12# Red
#WT2905 11#-13# Green
#WT2906 12#-14# Purple
#WT2907 16#-18# Silver
10-26-2006, 06:40 PM
#425
im still confused about all this suspension stuff. can anyone help me really understand this pan car stuff? could someone pm me some good info on them? or atleast put some good stuff on the forum. i would also like some vids of them and some surface types that they can run on. thank yall in advance
10-26-2006, 07:53 PM
#426
This thread is not that long. How about just taking a look at it from the beginning. I started out with no pan car experience at the beginnning of the thread. A lot of wise hands gave me quite a few helpfull hints on this thread. The whole point of this thread is to have a condensed place for 1/10 pan car info. You can actually run a pan car with .5 inch of ride height. Should be no problem on the street. A touring car will have better traction if the street or parking lot is dirty. A pan car would make a great drift car as well.
John
John
10-26-2006, 08:05 PM
#427
sorry ive just been buisy lately. like i said before, ive never done anything with these cars and i havent had time to read through the thread. i will take time this weekend and try to be better about some of this. sorry.
drifting with a pan? might be kinda hard considering its 2wd dont you think? i mean it could be done, but i think it would take alot of countersteering and practice. and you couldnt use abs piping for tires because the front wouldnt turn, so it might be hard. but that deffinitly sounds worth a shot. and saying it can be run on the street helps alot. thank you.
drifting with a pan? might be kinda hard considering its 2wd dont you think? i mean it could be done, but i think it would take alot of countersteering and practice. and you couldnt use abs piping for tires because the front wouldnt turn, so it might be hard. but that deffinitly sounds worth a shot. and saying it can be run on the street helps alot. thank you.
10-26-2006, 09:36 PM
#428
remember that most of what John is working on is bleeding edge stuff. . .he's really trying to push the envelope and then to re-engineer certain things in order to fix the problems out at that edge. . .
For beginners or for most of us (or running 6C stock), stick a GTP body on it, green foams (good starting point) and drive it. . .
They're the fastest things out there. . .they're incredibly simple to build, cheap to buy, and easy to set up. . .
But for someone like John, who is very technical and wants to push the envelope. . .yeah. When he's got the system developed and engineered. . .then go for it!
For beginners or for most of us (or running 6C stock), stick a GTP body on it, green foams (good starting point) and drive it. . .
They're the fastest things out there. . .they're incredibly simple to build, cheap to buy, and easy to set up. . .
But for someone like John, who is very technical and wants to push the envelope. . .yeah.
When he's got the system developed and engineered. . .then go for it!
10-27-2006, 07:59 AM
#429
Originally Posted by streetracer745
sorry ive just been buisy lately. like i said before, ive never done anything with these cars and i havent had time to read through the thread. i will take time this weekend and try to be better about some of this. sorry.
drifting with a pan? might be kinda hard considering its 2wd dont you think? i mean it could be done, but i think it would take alot of countersteering and practice. and you couldnt use abs piping for tires because the front wouldnt turn, so it might be hard. but that deffinitly sounds worth a shot. and saying it can be run on the street helps alot. thank you.
drifting with a pan? might be kinda hard considering its 2wd dont you think? i mean it could be done, but i think it would take alot of countersteering and practice. and you couldnt use abs piping for tires because the front wouldnt turn, so it might be hard. but that deffinitly sounds worth a shot. and saying it can be run on the street helps alot. thank you.
10-27-2006, 09:48 AM
#430
Tech Regular
John, you have contributed a lot in this thread, if there is such an MVP award, i will vote one for you 
10-27-2006, 01:10 PM
#431
Originally Posted by Marty Peterson
You could try the HPI drift Control (D box)I put one one my F1 car and set it to help keep the power slides down and the spinning out and it worked great.
10-27-2006, 02:24 PM
#432
Thanks for the posts and the nice words guys. I thought I would give a preliminary report on the
Murdoch front suspension
I installed all the long travel Murdoch parts and I had full travel now in that the chassis would bottom. Unfortunately the Murdoch steering blocks and axles had lowered the chassis about 2 mm, so the benefit was small. I then replaced the Murdoch axle and steering blocks with my stock Associated trailing front axle steering blocks and axles and got my 5 mm ride height back. Now I have 5 mm of travel. You could save some money just ordering springs and pins. The Murdoch axle is longer allowing some width adjustment to the front track width.
5 mm of travel does not get the progressive spring into its progressive area unless I encounter a bump on only one side of the car. 5 mm is my travel and ride height limit now as I have a built in 1/4 inch spacer in my home-made front suspension wings. I have a Doug Powell wide Pantoura Chassis ordered. This should allow me to get a desired 6.5 mm ride height and suspesion travel and then I can utilize the progressive part of the spring. The progressive springs are lighter in tension than I have been using. I have installed the stiffest silver spring. Maybe a way to go would be a sway bar with these light springs. Just a though. It depends on how much steering traction I end up with. I would prefer to use purple fronts from a wear standpoint. (And I would of course prefer twin active A-arms).
The Murdoch kingpins are as long as will fit inside the wheel.
Servo Flat Mod
The raised steering links are as high as will fit inside the wheel. I trimmed the outer ball cups just a bit for extra clearance as the wheel flexes some in use.
The associated 10L2 servo saver may be a smaller diameter and allow lowering of the steering links some.
Bump Steer and How to check it
Bump steer is the change in steering angle of the wheel as it goes up into bump from cornering or encountering a bump on the track (not from the drivers input). You can check bump steer easily on your pan car by removing the front wheel, turn the car over, Push down on the kingpin end to make the suspension go up into bump. If the axle changes angle then you have bump steer. Some bump toe out (the axle makes the front wheel toe out a little on bump) may make the car less likely to oversteer as it encounters a part of the corner with slightly more traction. Most of the time, though you adjust the steering link angle with spacers to eliminate bump steer.
John
Murdoch front suspension
I installed all the long travel Murdoch parts and I had full travel now in that the chassis would bottom. Unfortunately the Murdoch steering blocks and axles had lowered the chassis about 2 mm, so the benefit was small. I then replaced the Murdoch axle and steering blocks with my stock Associated trailing front axle steering blocks and axles and got my 5 mm ride height back. Now I have 5 mm of travel. You could save some money just ordering springs and pins. The Murdoch axle is longer allowing some width adjustment to the front track width.
5 mm of travel does not get the progressive spring into its progressive area unless I encounter a bump on only one side of the car. 5 mm is my travel and ride height limit now as I have a built in 1/4 inch spacer in my home-made front suspension wings. I have a Doug Powell wide Pantoura Chassis ordered. This should allow me to get a desired 6.5 mm ride height and suspesion travel and then I can utilize the progressive part of the spring. The progressive springs are lighter in tension than I have been using. I have installed the stiffest silver spring. Maybe a way to go would be a sway bar with these light springs. Just a though. It depends on how much steering traction I end up with. I would prefer to use purple fronts from a wear standpoint. (And I would of course prefer twin active A-arms).
The Murdoch kingpins are as long as will fit inside the wheel.
Servo Flat Mod
The raised steering links are as high as will fit inside the wheel. I trimmed the outer ball cups just a bit for extra clearance as the wheel flexes some in use.
The associated 10L2 servo saver may be a smaller diameter and allow lowering of the steering links some.
Bump Steer and How to check it
Bump steer is the change in steering angle of the wheel as it goes up into bump from cornering or encountering a bump on the track (not from the drivers input). You can check bump steer easily on your pan car by removing the front wheel, turn the car over, Push down on the kingpin end to make the suspension go up into bump. If the axle changes angle then you have bump steer. Some bump toe out (the axle makes the front wheel toe out a little on bump) may make the car less likely to oversteer as it encounters a part of the corner with slightly more traction. Most of the time, though you adjust the steering link angle with spacers to eliminate bump steer.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-27-2006 at 05:57 PM. Reason: changed camber link to steering link.
10-27-2006, 05:06 PM
#433
youve gotta be kidding me..... 
