new stock motor binary
12-09-2003, 08:08 PM
#61
HeY!!!
I just got one last weekend and once i ran it i noticed that it felt alot smoother getting on thorrtle threw the turns, and was .2-.4 secs faster on ave. lap... I love this motor so far and absolutely no probs w/ it yet also. The only thing is that i dropped 2 teeth on pinion bcuz of the better power band it has.
I just got one last weekend and once i ran it i noticed that it felt alot smoother getting on thorrtle threw the turns, and was .2-.4 secs faster on ave. lap... I love this motor so far and absolutely no probs w/ it yet also. The only thing is that i dropped 2 teeth on pinion bcuz of the better power band it has.
12-10-2003, 08:01 AM
#63
Tech Adept
Sorry I haven't been around in a while... perticularly for Dr. Bones who was asking about how to get Fantom data into the DynoViewer...
Dr. Bones, email me iggy 'at' merit.edu if your around... but the basic answer is, if your using Fantom's DOS based software, you can't get it in the DynoViewer without jumping through alot of hoops... if you have Windows based software, select the "save time based data to clipboard" feature from within the Fantom software... then use the "paste Fantom data from clipboard" in the DynoViewer... Email me if you need more help...
Back to the EPIC Bin2 'outlaw stock'...
Mine ran like crap out of the box. I did manage to get it running for 4 cell voltages, and I can see where this motor deffintely has the potential to be very fast if geared right.
So far I haven't been able to get mine to look good at 6 cell voltages, but I haven't really tried too hard just yet...
I have been told by a very reliable friend of mine that racers at the champs were able to get them to run well even at 6 cell voltages... In fact from what I've been told, at least one guy had one that was puttin out 135 watts peak on a Robitronic dyno at the 7.5 volt setting... The best motor I've ever seen on my Robi at that setting was about 134 watts... a typical good motor is 128 or better...
Where this and other high RPM stock motors really shine however is at the high end... My early data tells me this thing really puts out near it's max RPM... My early impression was not so good for this motor, but I guess it takes a little time to figure new things out... but from what I'm seeing, and from reports I've heard... this motor should be faster then a Monster...
On the ohter hand... I'm not sure these high RPM beasts are very good for the novice... my experiance is that the more RPM a motor has, the pickier it is about everything... from gearing to spring choice.... Probably see alot of these babys go up in smoke... by either people pushing them a bit too hard, or by people who don't know wha they are doing...
Dr. Bones, email me iggy 'at' merit.edu if your around... but the basic answer is, if your using Fantom's DOS based software, you can't get it in the DynoViewer without jumping through alot of hoops... if you have Windows based software, select the "save time based data to clipboard" feature from within the Fantom software... then use the "paste Fantom data from clipboard" in the DynoViewer... Email me if you need more help...
Back to the EPIC Bin2 'outlaw stock'...
Mine ran like crap out of the box. I did manage to get it running for 4 cell voltages, and I can see where this motor deffintely has the potential to be very fast if geared right.
So far I haven't been able to get mine to look good at 6 cell voltages, but I haven't really tried too hard just yet...
I have been told by a very reliable friend of mine that racers at the champs were able to get them to run well even at 6 cell voltages... In fact from what I've been told, at least one guy had one that was puttin out 135 watts peak on a Robitronic dyno at the 7.5 volt setting... The best motor I've ever seen on my Robi at that setting was about 134 watts... a typical good motor is 128 or better...
Where this and other high RPM stock motors really shine however is at the high end... My early data tells me this thing really puts out near it's max RPM... My early impression was not so good for this motor, but I guess it takes a little time to figure new things out... but from what I'm seeing, and from reports I've heard... this motor should be faster then a Monster...
On the ohter hand... I'm not sure these high RPM beasts are very good for the novice... my experiance is that the more RPM a motor has, the pickier it is about everything... from gearing to spring choice.... Probably see alot of these babys go up in smoke... by either people pushing them a bit too hard, or by people who don't know wha they are doing...
12-10-2003, 01:57 PM
#64
Tech Adept
If you go back through old posts, you'll see a lot of people did not initially like the Monster stock. After a while, those same people figured out how to make the Monsters perform quite well. It would not surprise me one bit to see a similar trend with the BS motor. Given enough time, guys will find ways to make just about any motor run well in every class.
I really hope ROAR does not change rules to allow quad mags in stock. Other than performance, quad mags are no benefit to the racer. The performance arguement is moot, because everybody will have one if the performance is actually noticably better. We ought to leave stock rules unchanged, and save the new tech improvements for mod class.
I really hope ROAR does not change rules to allow quad mags in stock. Other than performance, quad mags are no benefit to the racer. The performance arguement is moot, because everybody will have one if the performance is actually noticably better. We ought to leave stock rules unchanged, and save the new tech improvements for mod class.
12-11-2003, 08:08 AM
#65
Tech Adept
The biggest problem with this motor is... that it's not legal for ROAR... It's not really a "stock" motor by most peoples deffintion...
I've already heard at least one track operator say he was not going to allow it to run.... because people have said... ' if you allow it, I will start changing other things on it (and other stock motors), since it's not legal anyway...'
I do beleive the motor is going to run as good or better then any other stock motor. I'm not totaly convinced it's because of the quad magnets... I intend to do my own testing of this soon... I want to take the Arm and endbell and run it in a Monster can... and compare that to how it runs in the quad can... This is the only way to know if the quad magnets have any effect on it...
When I have done this type of testing with other quad cans... I see no differance. So I'm still skeptical with this quad can as well.
So what's that leave? maybe it's just the arm that makes more RPM....
anyway... I like to aproch things like this in a semi-scientific fashion... change one thing at a time and document what happens...
None of my testing will change the fact that this motor is not ROAR legal, and may never be.
I've already heard at least one track operator say he was not going to allow it to run.... because people have said... ' if you allow it, I will start changing other things on it (and other stock motors), since it's not legal anyway...'
I do beleive the motor is going to run as good or better then any other stock motor. I'm not totaly convinced it's because of the quad magnets... I intend to do my own testing of this soon... I want to take the Arm and endbell and run it in a Monster can... and compare that to how it runs in the quad can... This is the only way to know if the quad magnets have any effect on it...
When I have done this type of testing with other quad cans... I see no differance. So I'm still skeptical with this quad can as well.
So what's that leave? maybe it's just the arm that makes more RPM....
anyway... I like to aproch things like this in a semi-scientific fashion... change one thing at a time and document what happens...
None of my testing will change the fact that this motor is not ROAR legal, and may never be.
12-11-2003, 11:13 AM
#66
Ya it may not be ROAR legal... but the up coming Novak race (US touring Car Championships) at Trackside is allowing it in the stock class. I actually got some decent dyno numbers last night with one... 93 watts at 20 and 126 watts at 28 and my CE reads a few watts lower than most. I am going to run it this weekend and compare lap times to my best monster.
12-11-2003, 11:34 AM
#67
Tech Adept
Some clubs that stick to the ROAR rules have already made an exception for the BS motor. Our local club already decided to allow it. I protested the decision, because I think it opens a huge can of worms anytime a club strays from ROAR rules in stock class. The arguement that some guys in our club made was that the motor would surely be approved by ROAR because ROAR always does what Trinity wants. I argued that their logic was flawed. Trinity pushed the rebuildable stocks through ROAR with ease, because rebuildable stocks offered a serious value to the racers. The BS motors offer the racer nothing in return. I am sure the BS motors will make more power than existing ROAR legal stock motors once racers figure out how to tune them, but it is easy to build power with a motor that ignores the rules. And extra power is no benefit, because every racer will be forced to buy one to keep up.
Since our club allows the BS outlaw stock, it is only a matter of time before guys start arguing to allow 23t, 19t 0 degree, Novak 4800 brushless, and other so called stock solutions in stock class. It is a can of worms that did not need to be opened. I hope other clubs are having better luck fighting off this outlaw stock garbage.
Since our club allows the BS outlaw stock, it is only a matter of time before guys start arguing to allow 23t, 19t 0 degree, Novak 4800 brushless, and other so called stock solutions in stock class. It is a can of worms that did not need to be opened. I hope other clubs are having better luck fighting off this outlaw stock garbage.
12-11-2003, 12:20 PM
#69
Tech Master
iTrader: (14)
Ray:
how are yours looking??? so far all of mine want different gearing.......way different gearing. the one Mini ran in the main was geared at 36/100 with 2,245 tires. the 2nd one was run at 29/100 on a track longer than Cleveland's track. ant the 3rd one likes to be geared the same as our MS motors.
none of the ones I bought were epoxied balanced...no epoxy anywhere.
so far I'm not to sure about these.
if you get a chance please e mail me at [email protected]
Thanks
Tim
how are yours looking??? so far all of mine want different gearing.......way different gearing. the one Mini ran in the main was geared at 36/100 with 2,245 tires. the 2nd one was run at 29/100 on a track longer than Cleveland's track. ant the 3rd one likes to be geared the same as our MS motors.
none of the ones I bought were epoxied balanced...no epoxy anywhere.
so far I'm not to sure about these.
if you get a chance please e mail me at [email protected]
Thanks
Tim
12-11-2003, 12:58 PM
#71
Hey Tim
if you were to run that size tire on the cleveland size track in a TC3 (2.5)tranny ratio you would want to gear about a 33/100
with even a half way decent binary around 65 power
Mo Denton
if you were to run that size tire on the cleveland size track in a TC3 (2.5)tranny ratio you would want to gear about a 33/100
with even a half way decent binary around 65 power
Mo Denton
12-11-2003, 01:19 PM
#72
Tech Master
iTrader: (14)
Mo:
Hi,
I think you might know who I am. I was with the kid who had the white/green/blue Alfa body that was in Rob Love's round. I talked to you breifly about your sedan.
I tried that gear with the motor and it just seemed slow. it came off somewhat warm. so i geared up. most everyone was telling me to roll out around a .96 to 98 so I went up.
in the main I was geared at a 35/100 and it was fast Jason got 2nd in the E main just behind Drew.
at our track I ended up gearing the same motor 29/100. it was almost as fast as our MS
Thanks for your help
Tim
Hi,
I think you might know who I am. I was with the kid who had the white/green/blue Alfa body that was in Rob Love's round. I talked to you breifly about your sedan.
I tried that gear with the motor and it just seemed slow. it came off somewhat warm. so i geared up. most everyone was telling me to roll out around a .96 to 98 so I went up.
in the main I was geared at a 35/100 and it was fast Jason got 2nd in the E main just behind Drew.
at our track I ended up gearing the same motor 29/100. it was almost as fast as our MS
Thanks for your help
Tim
12-13-2003, 10:04 AM
#73
Tech Apprentice
Where can I get one (or more) of these motors. My LHS will not get any because it's not roar leagle
12-13-2003, 08:14 PM
#75
for our local races our shop said OK
so i tried one today in my TC......was not impressed. seemed more like a PK2 to me. i used two less teeth than the Monster and it was a dog. infact lost one lap over my usual 5 Mininute (which was clean) run both times. both the Monster back in......almost felt like a MOD after running the Binary Stk
it was the TRINITY Dynoed Pro version. had two purple springs on it and yet the instructions say to use a Green and Red??????? will have to try that and see what happens
so i tried one today in my TC......was not impressed. seemed more like a PK2 to me. i used two less teeth than the Monster and it was a dog. infact lost one lap over my usual 5 Mininute (which was clean) run both times. both the Monster back in......almost felt like a MOD after running the Binary Stk
it was the TRINITY Dynoed Pro version. had two purple springs on it and yet the instructions say to use a Green and Red??????? will have to try that and see what happens
Last edited by fast-ho-cars; 12-13-2003 at 08:26 PM.