XRAY T2’009
06-25-2010, 10:45 AM
#2431
My question is, does anyone here actually understand what the flex on front/rear of the car does to the handling? - I know about setup, but i'm finding that the rear flex options actually ruin the handing indoors on certain tracks and its the front flex screw holes that can give the car a bit more steering and compliance in the handling.
Put it this way, when I added the top/rear deck 2 screws to make the car have full amount of screws at the rear, the car was more stable and predictable. It was actually very surprising how big a change it was, considering how stiff the car already is at that point!
When I take the middle motor mount screw out the car is dreadfull and more snappy. This is on carpet. It seems to me having the right flex in the right place is the most important thing. I also swapped the rubber EU top deck with the rubber Asphalt EU top deck and the car was slightly more stable also, because the front part of the deck has a bit more flex, but the rest is kept the same.
I just wonder how many of you guys have experienced these scenarios indoors. The biggest problem I have is snap oversteer on corner entry to slow corners. As soon as throttle is touched, it wouldn't really matter what setup I have, the car is dialled. I've tried 6 deg caster blocks, harder front springs, Paul L setups, less downtravel at front (helped) but the car basically has an inherant snappiness into slow corners at certain indoor tracks. The laptimes are fast, but the car is hard to drive. I have camber 1.5 front, 2.5 rear and that was a decent change, so i'm keeping that. I'm finding stock setup with a few minor tweaks to be the best compromise, like less front camber, less front downtravel (6.0 to 6.5).
Put it this way, when I added the top/rear deck 2 screws to make the car have full amount of screws at the rear, the car was more stable and predictable. It was actually very surprising how big a change it was, considering how stiff the car already is at that point!
When I take the middle motor mount screw out the car is dreadfull and more snappy. This is on carpet. It seems to me having the right flex in the right place is the most important thing. I also swapped the rubber EU top deck with the rubber Asphalt EU top deck and the car was slightly more stable also, because the front part of the deck has a bit more flex, but the rest is kept the same.
I just wonder how many of you guys have experienced these scenarios indoors. The biggest problem I have is snap oversteer on corner entry to slow corners. As soon as throttle is touched, it wouldn't really matter what setup I have, the car is dialled. I've tried 6 deg caster blocks, harder front springs, Paul L setups, less downtravel at front (helped) but the car basically has an inherant snappiness into slow corners at certain indoor tracks. The laptimes are fast, but the car is hard to drive. I have camber 1.5 front, 2.5 rear and that was a decent change, so i'm keeping that. I'm finding stock setup with a few minor tweaks to be the best compromise, like less front camber, less front downtravel (6.0 to 6.5).
As my carpet track is between low-medium to medium grip I run the asphalt top deck instead of the standard one with all screws installed.
Droop is a big factor and I run 5 (2.5mm) all around or if I want more steering response run 6 (1.5mm) on the front.
If you have too much camber or toe-out on the front end you can get very strange things happening. Try running 0.5deg camber on the front with 0-0.5deg toe-out. If you need more steering go to 1deg camber.
Try turning your steering rate down (-30 expo) and reduce your steering end points from 100 to 80% per direction. This will soften your steering and make the car push initially into the corner.
Let me know how you make out.
Last edited by Capt'N_Slow; 06-25-2010 at 10:56 AM.
06-26-2010, 02:12 AM
#2432
Tech Adept
Last week I broke the top plate on the XRay. I was able to get it running without the top plate and to my surprise, it ran better without it.
I'm assuming that all the extra flex from not having the top plate attributed to better traction. However that setup didn't last long because the "flex" also untensioned the front belt such that it came of the front diff pulley. Perhaps that setup can still work if I can find a belt tensioner to put on the chassis. Anyone know of one I can use on the XRay?
BTW for anyones concern, I researched the parts list for the 009 vs the T3 and found that all the suspension parts and some of the drivetrain parts are compatible. I had to do this because my local shop carries parts for T3 but was not sure if they would fit the T2 009.
I'm assuming that all the extra flex from not having the top plate attributed to better traction. However that setup didn't last long because the "flex" also untensioned the front belt such that it came of the front diff pulley. Perhaps that setup can still work if I can find a belt tensioner to put on the chassis. Anyone know of one I can use on the XRay?BTW for anyones concern, I researched the parts list for the 009 vs the T3 and found that all the suspension parts and some of the drivetrain parts are compatible. I had to do this because my local shop carries parts for T3 but was not sure if they would fit the T2 009.
However, there's always a way. Get the Atomic 1.5mm top deck.
06-26-2010, 02:23 AM
#2433
Tech Adept
For Carpet I have always used Hard or Medium Flex setup.
As my carpet track is between low-medium to medium grip I run the asphalt top deck instead of the standard one with all screws installed.
Droop is a big factor and I run 5 (2.5mm) all around or if I want more steering response run 6 (1.5mm) on the front.
If you have too much camber or toe-out on the front end you can get very strange things happening. Try running 0.5deg camber on the front with 0-0.5deg toe-out. If you need more steering go to 1deg camber.
Try turning your steering rate down (-30 expo) and reduce your steering end points from 100 to 80% per direction. This will soften your steering and make the car push initially into the corner.
Let me know how you make out.
As my carpet track is between low-medium to medium grip I run the asphalt top deck instead of the standard one with all screws installed.
Droop is a big factor and I run 5 (2.5mm) all around or if I want more steering response run 6 (1.5mm) on the front.
If you have too much camber or toe-out on the front end you can get very strange things happening. Try running 0.5deg camber on the front with 0-0.5deg toe-out. If you need more steering go to 1deg camber.
Try turning your steering rate down (-30 expo) and reduce your steering end points from 100 to 80% per direction. This will soften your steering and make the car push initially into the corner.
Let me know how you make out.
I always run 0.5 toe out at front. I cannot stand expo. I've never liked it.
Do you run with or without the front post and what rebound do you like? I also use the asphalt top deck at times, as it made the car a bit more stable.
06-30-2010, 09:11 AM
#2434
Tech Adept
Corner exit push
HI, I am runnning a 009 spec t2 and the car pushes on power,
I ve had the car a couple of month now and have it doing just about what I want apart from the exit push. I ve tried more ackerman and a thick rear roll bar but just need some thing to bring the rear end around a bit more mid-exit.
I have the tie-rods as kit, would shortening them help?
thanks in advance
m
I ve had the car a couple of month now and have it doing just about what I want apart from the exit push. I ve tried more ackerman and a thick rear roll bar but just need some thing to bring the rear end around a bit more mid-exit.
I have the tie-rods as kit, would shortening them help?
thanks in advance
m
06-30-2010, 09:13 AM
#2435
Tech Adept
Hi, thanks very much for your advice. I did do 1 deg less camber at front the other week and it did help a lot, but my laptime really wasnt very good, as I think the understeer initially made the car take too long to get round the corners, although it did work in stabilising the car.
I always run 0.5 toe out at front. I cannot stand expo. I've never liked it.
Do you run with or without the front post and what rebound do you like? I also use the asphalt top deck at times, as it made the car a bit more stable.
I always run 0.5 toe out at front. I cannot stand expo. I've never liked it.
Do you run with or without the front post and what rebound do you like? I also use the asphalt top deck at times, as it made the car a bit more stable.
06-30-2010, 09:29 AM
#2436
HI, I am runnning a 009 spec t2 and the car pushes on power,
I ve had the car a couple of month now and have it doing just about what I want apart from the exit push. I ve tried more ackerman and a thick rear roll bar but just need some thing to bring the rear end around a bit more mid-exit.
I have the tie-rods as kit, would shortening them help?
thanks in advance
m
I ve had the car a couple of month now and have it doing just about what I want apart from the exit push. I ve tried more ackerman and a thick rear roll bar but just need some thing to bring the rear end around a bit more mid-exit.
I have the tie-rods as kit, would shortening them help?
thanks in advance
m
06-30-2010, 10:40 AM
#2437
HI, I am runnning a 009 spec t2 and the car pushes on power,
I ve had the car a couple of month now and have it doing just about what I want apart from the exit push. I ve tried more ackerman and a thick rear roll bar but just need some thing to bring the rear end around a bit more mid-exit.
I have the tie-rods as kit, would shortening them help?
thanks in advance
m
I ve had the car a couple of month now and have it doing just about what I want apart from the exit push. I ve tried more ackerman and a thick rear roll bar but just need some thing to bring the rear end around a bit more mid-exit.
I have the tie-rods as kit, would shortening them help?
thanks in advance
m
06-30-2010, 10:51 AM
#2438
Tech Regular
T2 009 diff thrust bearing
I need to rebuild my diff, do I need to replace the thrust bearing as well, as it costs £16 for a new xray thrust bearing
06-30-2010, 01:04 PM
#2439
Hi, thanks very much for your advice. I did do 1 deg less camber at front the other week and it did help a lot, but my laptime really wasnt very good, as I think the understeer initially made the car take too long to get round the corners, although it did work in stabilizing the car.
I always run 0.5 toe out at front. I cannot stand expo. I've never liked it.
Do you run with or without the front post and what rebound do you like? I also use the asphalt top deck at times, as it made the car a bit more stable.
I always run 0.5 toe out at front. I cannot stand expo. I've never liked it.
Do you run with or without the front post and what rebound do you like? I also use the asphalt top deck at times, as it made the car a bit more stable.
Usually I set my shocks up dead (no rebound) or very slight as that is the job of the springs. Springs I have been running 2.8 front with 2.6 rear. Hole 4 front and Hole 2-3 rear.
If you like your camber 1deg front and 2deg rear at normal ride height (5mm) then I would compress the suspension and see how much camber gain your are getting on your front vs your rear. At full compression my front is gaining 0.1deg and rear is 0.5deg. You may need to add or remove shims or change your roll center positions.
It sounds to me like you are battling a balance between front and rear grip. To find out if this is true take a temp gun and measure the temperatures of all your tires. If your setup is really off you will see an irregular (ripple) wear pattern on one of your tires and it will come off the track smoking hot 80-90deg.
06-30-2010, 01:53 PM
#2440
Tech Adept
Front roll center mounts are the middle ones, 1.6mm rear sway bar, both done to try and get the rear to come around.
Springs are Tamiya blue ft yellow re ( 15lb ft 14 lb rear)
cheers,
07-01-2010, 06:42 AM
#2441
Tech Adept
The front post is designed to break the front traction of the car at corner entry but I did not notice a large difference. Switching from carpet to asphalt top decks you can feel the difference.
Usually I set my shocks up dead (no rebound) or very slight as that is the job of the springs. Springs I have been running 2.8 front with 2.6 rear. Hole 4 front and Hole 2-3 rear.
If you like your camber 1deg front and 2deg rear at normal ride height (5mm) then I would compress the suspension and see how much camber gain your are getting on your front vs your rear. At full compression my front is gaining 0.1deg and rear is 0.5deg. You may need to add or remove shims or change your roll center positions.
It sounds to me like you are battling a balance between front and rear grip. To find out if this is true take a temp gun and measure the temperatures of all your tires. If your setup is really off you will see an irregular (ripple) wear pattern on one of your tires and it will come off the track smoking hot 80-90deg.
Usually I set my shocks up dead (no rebound) or very slight as that is the job of the springs. Springs I have been running 2.8 front with 2.6 rear. Hole 4 front and Hole 2-3 rear.
If you like your camber 1deg front and 2deg rear at normal ride height (5mm) then I would compress the suspension and see how much camber gain your are getting on your front vs your rear. At full compression my front is gaining 0.1deg and rear is 0.5deg. You may need to add or remove shims or change your roll center positions.
It sounds to me like you are battling a balance between front and rear grip. To find out if this is true take a temp gun and measure the temperatures of all your tires. If your setup is really off you will see an irregular (ripple) wear pattern on one of your tires and it will come off the track smoking hot 80-90deg.
I must confess that my rear tires are usually in great condition and the fronts are wearing much faster, but some of that is to do with the spool at the front generally. I've decided to go back to stock setup and start again slowly. I will put the front post in, as that can cool the fronts down a bit (if it is that at all thats the issue).
Its funny that at WKRC indoor track (the other place I race) the car behaves a lot differently. No snappy rear end. Maybe this is because the carpet is less abrasive? - I'll temp the tires tonight to see if there's any irregularities.
07-01-2010, 07:07 AM
#2442
Tech Adept
07-02-2010, 10:06 AM
#2443
Thanks, i'm grateful for your help. I did go back to 2deg front and rear and saw definately more steering with a hint of snap oversteer still going into slow corners. I also like you, run 2.8/2.6 springs as I find thats the best balance overall. If I go 3.0/2.6 o I still get same general behaviour with the back end snapping out.
I must confess that my rear tires are usually in great condition and the fronts are wearing much faster, but some of that is to do with the spool at the front generally. I've decided to go back to stock setup and start again slowly. I will put the front post in, as that can cool the fronts down a bit (if it is that at all thats the issue).
Its funny that at WKRC indoor track (the other place I race) the car behaves a lot differently. No snappy rear end. Maybe this is because the carpet is less abrasive? - I'll temp the tires tonight to see if there's any irregularities.
I must confess that my rear tires are usually in great condition and the fronts are wearing much faster, but some of that is to do with the spool at the front generally. I've decided to go back to stock setup and start again slowly. I will put the front post in, as that can cool the fronts down a bit (if it is that at all thats the issue).
Its funny that at WKRC indoor track (the other place I race) the car behaves a lot differently. No snappy rear end. Maybe this is because the carpet is less abrasive? - I'll temp the tires tonight to see if there's any irregularities.
The track you run at could be another clue. I had similar issues to this when switching from a jack to a niftech (traction adder) site.
The only fix was to bring the rubber tires back to rubber again by washing the tires with simple green (dish soap) then removing the traction compound using motor spray and a rag. Add on the traction compound that is most used on the carpet where you are racing.
Reapply traction adder full rear tire then only inside half on the front to begin with.
The other subtitle clue will be look at the racing line. If there is a thick black groove (line) there is someone running jack (trinity) traction adder as niftech tracks the carpet remains quite clean.
*** DANGER Note *** be careful to purchase the right motor spray as most contain an organic solvent which is quite toxic to use. If you don't know what to buy in your area goto a person that uses these products at your track for advise.
07-06-2010, 08:15 PM
#2444
Hi Guys
Ive done some research into this and found one for the T2009, it's available through an ebay seller via this link http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Spec-R-Gear-D...item3a5b2c7348
The only modification you need to make is to use 50mm cvd's/ecs drive shafts in the rear instead of the standard 52mm.
If you want run the 38t T3 gear diff you need to run the 50mm shafts in the rear still and also upgrade the front spool to a 38t.
Hopefully Ive covered it all here.
Cheers
Adrian
Ive done some research into this and found one for the T2009, it's available through an ebay seller via this link http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Spec-R-Gear-D...item3a5b2c7348
The only modification you need to make is to use 50mm cvd's/ecs drive shafts in the rear instead of the standard 52mm.
If you want run the 38t T3 gear diff you need to run the 50mm shafts in the rear still and also upgrade the front spool to a 38t.
Hopefully Ive covered it all here.
Cheers
Adrian
07-17-2010, 04:41 PM
#2445
hey guys,
just a small question before my next order,
am running a T2R pro with 34T diffs and 20T mid pullies, whats the part number for the long belt?? i see there are 3 or 4 out there but not sure which one is the one i need, the car is stock and has no forword motor mount or anything else.
cheers
Ali
just a small question before my next order,
am running a T2R pro with 34T diffs and 20T mid pullies, whats the part number for the long belt?? i see there are 3 or 4 out there but not sure which one is the one i need, the car is stock and has no forword motor mount or anything else.
cheers
Ali