Brushless Motors
03-05-2002, 11:21 AM
#1
Brushless Motors
Brushless motors have been around sometime, although not by a major RC car/gear manufacturer. Why have they not been used in mainstream competition? Will they now catch on because of who is promoting them? Will there need to be a seperate class for brushless, and what will happen to all the manufacturers of motor brushes, springs, lathes, and of course speed controls? Any body have some input?
03-05-2002, 12:01 PM
#2
Who knows
Thats about the most honest answer you can ask for. We just don't know. It all depends on how well the motors are accepted. Around the time Novak first put that ad out(which was a LONG time ago) many people were cheering at the fact Trinity was doomed and Ernie would be on welfare soon.
But, here we are, still using standard motors and speedcontrols. Now it looks as though Orion has beat Novak to the punch. So there are now two BIG name companies that will have BL motors. But, I think it will all come down to $$$ and support. If the new motors are affordable and are supported by local race programs and the large governing bodies, then they will become big.
Otherwise, they will remain the mere novelty that they are now.
But, here we are, still using standard motors and speedcontrols. Now it looks as though Orion has beat Novak to the punch. So there are now two BIG name companies that will have BL motors. But, I think it will all come down to $$$ and support. If the new motors are affordable and are supported by local race programs and the large governing bodies, then they will become big.
Otherwise, they will remain the mere novelty that they are now.
03-14-2002, 02:01 PM
#3
Tech Apprentice
Is the orion available for sale yet? If so is it legal to run in Mod class?
THepetenis
THepetenis
03-14-2002, 05:18 PM
#4
I think it is available, and if not it will be soon. No, it would be illegal to run in stock or mod.
03-14-2002, 08:54 PM
#5
This is how it comes down to... Like 2400 Nicds , sooner or later everyone will stop buying them, manufacturers will stop making them, and in a long time they will become obsolete, unmanufacturable, and most people just won't buy/sell them. But it will be awhile for this to happen. The only way for this to happen if all the manufacturers were to stop making them by a certain date, this way the hobby can evolve and adjust to those BIG changes.
Some companies will make it BIG and some will lose out. Currently, the brushless motor is used by almost NOBODY, because there have been no classes made for them , or enough support for the product. In order to run the brushless you need a special speed control too. And YES, all those brush and spring companies will be out of it, but not for awhile. Until all the motor companies decide to stop making them on a certain date, then that notion will come true.
I think brushless motors will be really new, really fast, easily maintanable(based on what the manufacturers say)but pretty expensive, like everything else in electric. Mod motors are already fast, but will people want to go that fast...all that $$ on broken parts???
And also..... I've tried contacting Novak about one of their products, and out of nowhere they told me that their "concentrating alot of their research with the brushless motor".
It'll be awhile................but what do I know
Some companies will make it BIG and some will lose out. Currently, the brushless motor is used by almost NOBODY, because there have been no classes made for them , or enough support for the product. In order to run the brushless you need a special speed control too. And YES, all those brush and spring companies will be out of it, but not for awhile. Until all the motor companies decide to stop making them on a certain date, then that notion will come true.
I think brushless motors will be really new, really fast, easily maintanable(based on what the manufacturers say)but pretty expensive, like everything else in electric. Mod motors are already fast, but will people want to go that fast...all that $$ on broken parts???
And also..... I've tried contacting Novak about one of their products, and out of nowhere they told me that their "concentrating alot of their research with the brushless motor".
It'll be awhile................but what do I know
03-14-2002, 11:10 PM
#6
Tech Rookie
yeah..it's too bad there are not many ppl using them, BL motors.
From my personal experience, they really pissed all the other drivers at my track, cos it last 20 mins for a run while the others must change and recharge their batt which at best only last under 10 mins
Also...there is no need for comm lathe,replacing brushes and etc. I just oil the bearing on both end once in awhile.....
Mine is from modeltech......
I am waiting for Orion or Novak........
From my personal experience, they really pissed all the other drivers at my track, cos it last 20 mins for a run while the others must change and recharge their batt which at best only last under 10 mins
Also...there is no need for comm lathe,replacing brushes and etc. I just oil the bearing on both end once in awhile.....
Mine is from modeltech......
I am waiting for Orion or Novak........
03-15-2002, 04:43 PM
#7
Tech Apprentice
05-17-2002, 10:56 AM
#8
Tech Rookie
05-21-2002, 11:16 AM
#10
Tech Rookie
Thanks for the correction....
At least they list it on their website along with pricing. I expect prices to drop as Orion and Novak will have to compete with Hacker, Astro and others. The pricing on these are extremely high when compared to conventional motors but they are faster, more durable and don't require the maintenance that other motors require. The ESC pricing is in line with current high performing conventional units.
As far as adoption by racing; this will happen; no doubt about it. With two big RC companies behind them, pressure will mount on the organizations to have classes for them. I think we will see prices drop as more people buy them as well. There will probably be a new class in the beginning and then I expect modified classes to eventually be dominated with these type of motors.
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/MOTOR/motor.htm
http://www.team-orion.ch/news.asp?id=206
http://www.team-orion.ch/products/motors_brl.asp
European Sites:
http://www.bk-electronics.com/modellbau/en/ (all links aren't working right now but hopefully will be fixed by company)
http://www.modeltech.co.uk/ (they are working on a new version)
If none of you have read about these, search the net for more info or search this site for links. You will be very surprised at their performance. 30% more effiecient is what Novak is saying. If these are geared, you may also see much higher speeds out of these as well. I see no reason why these can't be just as fast as any nitro out there. Also, the cell limit is much higher with these. We may see an increase in the number of cells in racing because of this. With less maintenance and cleaner running, you may also see some nitro racers come back to electric racing.
As an aside, did you know that an electric car held the fastest speed records in the 20's? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 130MPH, which was quite extraordinairy at the time....
As far as adoption by racing; this will happen; no doubt about it. With two big RC companies behind them, pressure will mount on the organizations to have classes for them. I think we will see prices drop as more people buy them as well. There will probably be a new class in the beginning and then I expect modified classes to eventually be dominated with these type of motors.
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/MOTOR/motor.htm
http://www.team-orion.ch/news.asp?id=206
http://www.team-orion.ch/products/motors_brl.asp
European Sites:
http://www.bk-electronics.com/modellbau/en/ (all links aren't working right now but hopefully will be fixed by company)
http://www.modeltech.co.uk/ (they are working on a new version)
If none of you have read about these, search the net for more info or search this site for links. You will be very surprised at their performance. 30% more effiecient is what Novak is saying. If these are geared, you may also see much higher speeds out of these as well. I see no reason why these can't be just as fast as any nitro out there. Also, the cell limit is much higher with these. We may see an increase in the number of cells in racing because of this. With less maintenance and cleaner running, you may also see some nitro racers come back to electric racing.
As an aside, did you know that an electric car held the fastest speed records in the 20's? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 130MPH, which was quite extraordinairy at the time....
05-21-2002, 04:30 PM
#11
I think it is just sign of the times.... brushless makes sense in every way, lower maintenance, reliability, more efficeint and ultimately more horse power. Yes it is more expensive but since I started RC I must have spent over that amount or "trying out" new and different motors... add the cost of a lathe and numerous brushes I have changed... time lost in preparation and performance variances.... think along those lines then brushless is not as expensive as one may think!
Without being able to set up guidelines on different classes of racing with brushless will delay their entry to the racing arena (also the current lack of choice will mean people delaying in buying them as they have nothing to compare them with) . In current times we have stock/mods etc... we will have similar with BL motors.... I race is stock class beause I am new to this and the cost is lower and the racing is more levelled. I feel more withit with the limited speed stock motors provide and thus I feel I am able to learn better about everything... from motors to car setup and handling...
I read elsewhere ppl are worried that they cant tune the BL motors themselves.... well maybe but thats because the standard motors are by their nature are SO FLAWED!!!! and lets put it another way.... we shall have more time tuning other bits then
If for example there is to be a "stock class BL class" then we will still enjoy levelled racing where it is a lot harder to gain more speed then just by dropping turns... and the actual racing will be definitely be better as we can have speed and longer race durations which I think every will agree on...
Without being able to set up guidelines on different classes of racing with brushless will delay their entry to the racing arena (also the current lack of choice will mean people delaying in buying them as they have nothing to compare them with) . In current times we have stock/mods etc... we will have similar with BL motors.... I race is stock class beause I am new to this and the cost is lower and the racing is more levelled. I feel more withit with the limited speed stock motors provide and thus I feel I am able to learn better about everything... from motors to car setup and handling...
I read elsewhere ppl are worried that they cant tune the BL motors themselves.... well maybe but thats because the standard motors are by their nature are SO FLAWED!!!! and lets put it another way.... we shall have more time tuning other bits then
If for example there is to be a "stock class BL class" then we will still enjoy levelled racing where it is a lot harder to gain more speed then just by dropping turns... and the actual racing will be definitely be better as we can have speed and longer race durations which I think every will agree on...
05-22-2002, 03:04 PM
#12
Tech Adept
The problem will be that you spend a bunch of money on a brushless motor and a week later someone comes out with a better one. Also Imagine if with this new motor only the new ESC made for it works with it.
There will be ways to "tune" them that we haven't even imagined yet.
Brushless motors won't solve the problems of racing, only change them. Alot of people are jumping into this argument half cocked without thinking things out.
As far as hobby use though they will be great.
There will be ways to "tune" them that we haven't even imagined yet.
Brushless motors won't solve the problems of racing, only change them. Alot of people are jumping into this argument half cocked without thinking things out.
As far as hobby use though they will be great.
05-22-2002, 05:18 PM
#13
Considering that there are actually less parts in a direct drive BL motor than the standard ones I can only hope that the sooner there are races with them in the sooner the BL maker can recover their initial development / PR cost and bring it to the level we can all enjoy.
As far as a better version comes out, that is just the result of R&D, you can apply the same argument with cells and nobody will avoid buying newer and better cells in multiples.... I think the only negative is that they will actually sell less motor as BL can last and last.... unlike the standard motors.... so the manufacturers will not sell the volume they are used to and hence their prices may not drop to standard motor levels!
As for the ESC, it is in the BL ESC and motor manufacturers's interest to aim for one standard to achieve the widest compatibllity to increase their market size, If you think carefully, by making a BL motor dedicated to an ESC and vice versa spells suicide for the entire product.
Me for one I just can't wait
As far as a better version comes out, that is just the result of R&D, you can apply the same argument with cells and nobody will avoid buying newer and better cells in multiples.... I think the only negative is that they will actually sell less motor as BL can last and last.... unlike the standard motors.... so the manufacturers will not sell the volume they are used to and hence their prices may not drop to standard motor levels!
As for the ESC, it is in the BL ESC and motor manufacturers's interest to aim for one standard to achieve the widest compatibllity to increase their market size, If you think carefully, by making a BL motor dedicated to an ESC and vice versa spells suicide for the entire product.
Me for one I just can't wait
05-22-2002, 06:55 PM
#14
Tech Adept
"If you think carefully, by making a BL motor dedicated to an ESC and vice versa spells suicide for the entire product. "
Not if a propriety ESC and motor combo out there is better than the rest, racers will flock to it you know how racers are.
Trinity changed the brush springs of stock motors to a non standard spring and sold alot more springs. Granted that is a very low price item but dont for a minute think a company such as Trinity wouldnt try to force you to buy only their stuff.
Not if a propriety ESC and motor combo out there is better than the rest, racers will flock to it you know how racers are.
Trinity changed the brush springs of stock motors to a non standard spring and sold alot more springs. Granted that is a very low price item but dont for a minute think a company such as Trinity wouldnt try to force you to buy only their stuff.
05-23-2002, 07:03 AM
#15
Tech Rookie
Another Site
Well, everything is speculation until more people buy them. You can change the timing on these. As far as tuning goes, this may be possible but if you hook them up wrong, they can break. Here is another site:
http://www.aveox.com/hobby.htm
I like the concept of not having to do much to these to maintain them. Cutting coms, replacing springs and brushes will go away.
I won't speculate on faster motors and tuning them. I just don't know enough about these to say one way or another. I am just excited at the opportunity.
http://www.aveox.com/hobby.htm
I like the concept of not having to do much to these to maintain them. Cutting coms, replacing springs and brushes will go away.
I won't speculate on faster motors and tuning them. I just don't know enough about these to say one way or another. I am just excited at the opportunity.