143LikesAwesomatix EP Touring Car (A700 Shaft Drive)
01-25-2012, 12:44 PM
#1456
We do not get to race onroad very often, but we do have a full carpet track in our building that we do a lot of testing on. I do not think there is another carpet track for 500mi, but there is a new outdoor pavement track and indoor offroad track that just opened in Boise, Id that we are looking forward to running on.
We do get out and race offroad a fair amount in the NW. We love the huge NW tracks and 1/8E buggy and truggy. We also really enjoy indoor clay and traditional 1/10 classes mod buggy, mod truck and 4mod. We have a 180' x 75' offroad track next to Tekin that we test on when it is not under snow. I even have a decent 1/10 track at my house where drinking and driving is legal
We built this car to install our products in it and use it in our tradeshow booth because it is unique and impressive. We also plan to run it on our track testing our products and on any onroad tracks we do go to.
Tekin Prez
We do get out and race offroad a fair amount in the NW. We love the huge NW tracks and 1/8E buggy and truggy. We also really enjoy indoor clay and traditional 1/10 classes mod buggy, mod truck and 4mod. We have a 180' x 75' offroad track next to Tekin that we test on when it is not under snow. I even have a decent 1/10 track at my house where drinking and driving is legal
We built this car to install our products in it and use it in our tradeshow booth because it is unique and impressive. We also plan to run it on our track testing our products and on any onroad tracks we do go to.
Tekin Prez
The A700 is a fun build. Kind of reminds me when everything in r/c was new and tinkering was the hobby. Not just bolting on a setup but actually finding a setup.
Hope Tekin finds something just as 'innovative' and 'interesting' to display in the car!
Bring it to Snowbirds and race it!
01-25-2012, 11:42 PM
#1457
Tech Regular
I put the shorter links on last night, you can noticeably feel the car will roll more, also making the car feel softer left to right. Did you guys need to stiffen the suspension at all to compensate for the extra roll?
01-26-2012, 01:25 AM
#1458
Damm, that didn't go so well...
Managed all of three runs today, and didn't really get down to testing anything substantial, only managed to tick off the sighting and tyre testing runs
Basically, managed to catch a track marker just a little wrong, making the car stop dead very quickly. However, it drove away fine, so thought nothing more of it, until it started to hook quite badly on one particular corner. Given I'd just put fresh boots on, thought it was a slightly off setting, but turns out I'd sheared the top off on of the P03 caps, and that was all... even the P07 clip was in place when I found the top!
Unfortuantly it's one of the spares I hadn't (yet.. now ordered!) picked up, so packed up and headed home, although only after ragging my Mini-T round the off-road track
Won't be able to get to the track again for a while, so should have plenty of time to get the parts in, even with the Chinese New Year disruptions.
Regards
Ed
Managed all of three runs today, and didn't really get down to testing anything substantial, only managed to tick off the sighting and tyre testing runs
Basically, managed to catch a track marker just a little wrong, making the car stop dead very quickly. However, it drove away fine, so thought nothing more of it, until it started to hook quite badly on one particular corner. Given I'd just put fresh boots on, thought it was a slightly off setting, but turns out I'd sheared the top off on of the P03 caps, and that was all... even the P07 clip was in place when I found the top!
Unfortuantly it's one of the spares I hadn't (yet.. now ordered!) picked up, so packed up and headed home, although only after ragging my Mini-T round the off-road track
Won't be able to get to the track again for a while, so should have plenty of time to get the parts in, even with the Chinese New Year disruptions.
Regards
Ed
01-26-2012, 03:27 AM
#1459
Interesting. How was the lap time compared to the long link?
01-26-2012, 04:32 AM
#1460
Tech Regular
01-26-2012, 04:37 AM
#1461
This is when the sway bars come into play. Brown (front) Black (rear)
01-26-2012, 05:45 AM
#1462
Tech Regular
01-26-2012, 08:39 AM
#1463
But if it does start to get edgy (near traction roll), you should try putting some sway bars on (to calm it down a bit).
01-26-2012, 08:41 AM
#1464
For the amount of track bite we have been testing on, I prefer sway bars with the soft dampened/short link setup.
01-26-2012, 10:47 PM
#1465
Don't worry with traction rolling on Sorex...
I mainly only run on those tires and traction rolls are no problem at all ...
regards Tom
01-27-2012, 12:37 AM
#1466
Tech Adept
Hi Tom,
do you have to glue the sidewalls of your sorex tires to prevent traction roll (when you race on high grip carpet) ?
Best regards,
David
do you have to glue the sidewalls of your sorex tires to prevent traction roll (when you race on high grip carpet) ?
Best regards,
David
01-27-2012, 01:12 AM
#1467
Its not necesary needed to glue the sidewalls but its a lot easier to drive ..without gluing them the car is very sharp on sterring so its a lot better with glued sidewalls.
on the A700 i glue them not so high then on other cars before...
just try with little glue to find your personel liking ... when you have an aggressiv driving you need to glue more then with a smooth driving .
Regards Tom
01-27-2012, 03:35 AM
#1468
Tech Initiate
Order 1000249
Hello OLeg
Can u please check out ur mailbox.
thanks
Can u please check out ur mailbox.
thanks
01-27-2012, 06:53 AM
#1469
Tech Regular
Hy David,
Its not necesary needed to glue the sidewalls but its a lot easier to drive ..without gluing them the car is very sharp on sterring so its a lot better with glued sidewalls.
on the A700 i glue them not so high then on other cars before...
just try with little glue to find your personel liking ... when you have an aggressiv driving you need to glue more then with a smooth driving .
Regards Tom
Its not necesary needed to glue the sidewalls but its a lot easier to drive ..without gluing them the car is very sharp on sterring so its a lot better with glued sidewalls.
on the A700 i glue them not so high then on other cars before...
just try with little glue to find your personel liking ... when you have an aggressiv driving you need to glue more then with a smooth driving .
Regards Tom
I'm planning on running the shorter links tomorrow, not done it before, hardly done any running with the a700 with sorex either, have you tried the shorter links? If so, how did you find it in comparison to the longer ones?
01-27-2012, 08:42 AM
#1470
Evening all,
Given I'm still on Holiday due to Chinese new year, and not having a lot else to do with everything shut (and I literally mean everything!), and not being able to go to the track and run due to yesterday's, umm, driver error, thought I'd sit down and have a fiddle with the car. Mainly wanted to try out how fast I can switch out between transverse and longitudinal motor (not as long as I thought), and the standard and IAS (the same
). I also wanted to check the weight balance with the transverse, which is something I could do even with the broken ball cup.
Finally, also wanted to make it a little easier to remove the top deck without poping off the ball cups. So excuse the following ramblings... I'll try and keep them to make sense!!
First up, Top deck ball joints. Given I've been regularly loosening the top deck screws as part of my general habits vs tweak, I was finding having to pop the ball joints off each time a little concerning. Could also see them starting to look ragged due to my pliers.. Anyway, I've switched out all the inner ball joints on the long links for Tamiya 8mm hexheaded Ball studs, and Tamiya ball cups with the top cut off... bingo, can now drop a 2mm wrench into the hex head, and not have to pop the cup off. Also means only one tool to take the top deck off the car, me likey!
Only difference is that the Tamiya ball joints are 0.5mm lower than the kit ones, so have to add an extra 0.5mm to the shims to raise the link back up to the correct height.
Next up, Transverse motor switching. I was really surprised at this, as it didn't really take as long as I expected to switch this over as I thought. Could easily have it completed and ready to go in ten minutes at a push, as long as you don't have to resolder wires (truth be told, I was waiting on some 14AWG wire before I could do this, all my stock is the wrong colour... yellow, urgh!). In terms of motor positioning, I think I'll forget looking for a motor with a short shaft, and buy what I think will be fastest and cut the shaft down. The X12 I had for trial fitting only required 2.75mm of shims between the motor bracket and mount bar. Even then had a comfortable amount of clearance between the end if the shaft and the centre shaft, so could still bring the motor in closer if needed.
Whilst I had the car in that config, I wanted to check the weight balance as well, as having the motor hanging out is always going to change the balance. With the transverse setup, I've found having the cells flush with the side of the chassis gives a pretty good L-R balance, and tweaks up well on the station. For the transverse motor, I had to move the cells out 4.5mm from the chassis edge to achieve the same L-R. Couldn't put it on the tweak station, but I'm pretty confident that will be good too when I can.
Obviously this would change a bit with a) lighter electrics (I'm using Savox 1251MG, Sanwa RX451-R, and HW v2.1 120A), and b) motor spaced out differently. But that should give a pretty good ball park figure to work in.
Thirdly, IAS trial fitting. Ok, got to admit, this is the one I've kept putting off testing before, mainly as it looked like it would require a pretty big dissemble to fit, and I always had other things higher on the list to run through. Anyway, sitting down with some time to think out it, I figured out it's not so difficult to switch out, and with a bit of magical screw balancing through holes, can fit it without taking out the front gearbox
. Wouldn't be as quick to fit as the transverse, but a good 20mins, plus setup time on the gauges (as the links need shortening), and would be good to go.
Anyway, the above then led me to have a look at the bump steer spacers, and this is when I realised that I haven't been adjusting the bump steer spacers when sorting out the castor...
This was especially noticeable on the rear, in that I was gaining a fair bit of toe-in with compression on the rear, and this would possible explain the mid-corner push I had been experiencing. Since the first test, I had reduced the rear castor from 7.5° to 2.5°, so quite a large change. Also on the front I was having a bit of toe-out under compression, although I was running the spacers that I had seen on other setup sheets.
To solve the front, I dropped 0.5mm shim out off the rack, whilst at the rear had to switch from having 1mm inboard, to 1mm outboard. This pretty much made the links flat, and completely removed any bump steer.
I think this is a pretty important point to remember, so lesson learned for me.
As a question for Oleg, do you have any advice on how to adjust the bump steer spacers when adjusting castor on the front/rear? Or just play it as you see it?
Anyway, enough of the ramblings... I'm off to bed, one more day of holiday, then the city wakes back up again
HiH
Ed
Given I'm still on Holiday due to Chinese new year, and not having a lot else to do with everything shut (and I literally mean everything!), and not being able to go to the track and run due to yesterday's, umm, driver error, thought I'd sit down and have a fiddle with the car. Mainly wanted to try out how fast I can switch out between transverse and longitudinal motor (not as long as I thought), and the standard and IAS (the same
). I also wanted to check the weight balance with the transverse, which is something I could do even with the broken ball cup. Finally, also wanted to make it a little easier to remove the top deck without poping off the ball cups. So excuse the following ramblings... I'll try and keep them to make sense!!
First up, Top deck ball joints. Given I've been regularly loosening the top deck screws as part of my general habits vs tweak, I was finding having to pop the ball joints off each time a little concerning. Could also see them starting to look ragged due to my pliers.. Anyway, I've switched out all the inner ball joints on the long links for Tamiya 8mm hexheaded Ball studs, and Tamiya ball cups with the top cut off... bingo, can now drop a 2mm wrench into the hex head, and not have to pop the cup off. Also means only one tool to take the top deck off the car, me likey!
Only difference is that the Tamiya ball joints are 0.5mm lower than the kit ones, so have to add an extra 0.5mm to the shims to raise the link back up to the correct height.
Next up, Transverse motor switching. I was really surprised at this, as it didn't really take as long as I expected to switch this over as I thought. Could easily have it completed and ready to go in ten minutes at a push, as long as you don't have to resolder wires (truth be told, I was waiting on some 14AWG wire before I could do this, all my stock is the wrong colour... yellow, urgh!). In terms of motor positioning, I think I'll forget looking for a motor with a short shaft, and buy what I think will be fastest and cut the shaft down. The X12 I had for trial fitting only required 2.75mm of shims between the motor bracket and mount bar. Even then had a comfortable amount of clearance between the end if the shaft and the centre shaft, so could still bring the motor in closer if needed.
Whilst I had the car in that config, I wanted to check the weight balance as well, as having the motor hanging out is always going to change the balance. With the transverse setup, I've found having the cells flush with the side of the chassis gives a pretty good L-R balance, and tweaks up well on the station. For the transverse motor, I had to move the cells out 4.5mm from the chassis edge to achieve the same L-R. Couldn't put it on the tweak station, but I'm pretty confident that will be good too when I can.
Obviously this would change a bit with a) lighter electrics (I'm using Savox 1251MG, Sanwa RX451-R, and HW v2.1 120A), and b) motor spaced out differently. But that should give a pretty good ball park figure to work in.
Thirdly, IAS trial fitting. Ok, got to admit, this is the one I've kept putting off testing before, mainly as it looked like it would require a pretty big dissemble to fit, and I always had other things higher on the list to run through. Anyway, sitting down with some time to think out it, I figured out it's not so difficult to switch out, and with a bit of magical screw balancing through holes, can fit it without taking out the front gearbox
. Wouldn't be as quick to fit as the transverse, but a good 20mins, plus setup time on the gauges (as the links need shortening), and would be good to go. Anyway, the above then led me to have a look at the bump steer spacers, and this is when I realised that I haven't been adjusting the bump steer spacers when sorting out the castor...
This was especially noticeable on the rear, in that I was gaining a fair bit of toe-in with compression on the rear, and this would possible explain the mid-corner push I had been experiencing. Since the first test, I had reduced the rear castor from 7.5° to 2.5°, so quite a large change. Also on the front I was having a bit of toe-out under compression, although I was running the spacers that I had seen on other setup sheets. To solve the front, I dropped 0.5mm shim out off the rack, whilst at the rear had to switch from having 1mm inboard, to 1mm outboard. This pretty much made the links flat, and completely removed any bump steer.
I think this is a pretty important point to remember, so lesson learned for me.
As a question for Oleg, do you have any advice on how to adjust the bump steer spacers when adjusting castor on the front/rear? Or just play it as you see it?
Anyway, enough of the ramblings... I'm off to bed, one more day of holiday, then the city wakes back up again
HiH
Ed
