Electric 1/8 Rules Debate
02-16-2009, 04:57 PM
#61
teeforb.... my main reason for 10 minute max is we need to respect the other electric classes out there as well. how did you feel when you had 5 minute electric cars and had to marshall long nitro mains? also it dosent push a 4s 5000 setup which is the most popular.
as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.
as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.
Personally, i like running 15 mins with the nitro. i would not want that removed. for big races, 30 mins with a lipo swap...
02-16-2009, 04:57 PM
#62
i am a noob and i drive a land missile BUT i have done hours upon hours of research and understand allot about these cars. THEY ARE TOYS thats why we buy them for fun right? i wouldn't drop this much money into something that was a PITA would you? there should be no ruling to who can race i mean if you showed up and someone told you that you couldn't race because you were a noob wouldn't you be mad? if they are really that bad of a driver you could make a beginner class but like you stated no beginner is going to drop a grand minimum in to there car(except me 
). as for rules throw them out the window let the class progess, when my dad used to race they could do anything to the cars, now every little thing has a rule next thing you know there will be a rule for what you can wear to the track 
. like in baja racing there is a class 1 that resembles the truggys and buggys in RC guess what they are unlimited to what you can do. so like allot of people stated above let the class's progress then set rules based upon what works not what they think will work, just my 00.0000002c
-Thomas Jones
). as for rules throw them out the window let the class progess, when my dad used to race they could do anything to the cars, now every little thing has a rule next thing you know there will be a rule for what you can wear to the track . like in baja racing there is a class 1 that resembles the truggys and buggys in RC guess what they are unlimited to what you can do. so like allot of people stated above let the class's progress then set rules based upon what works not what they think will work, just my 00.0000002c -Thomas Jones
If you come to race, you should understand it is NOT a "Free for all" as you would have it. Bashing is for people that buy these thinking they are "Toys". We RACE, and our hobby grade RC race cars are not "Toys". This is also one of the reasons few racers want to spot for the novice classes. There really should be a simple sense of personal responsibility.
I didn't say noobs shouldn't be aloud to race. They shouldn't be aloud to endanger people, what fun is that?
02-16-2009, 04:59 PM
#63
here at srs, which is definetely in the top 5 best and recognized electric tracks, electric 1.8th has grown from 2 people a year ago, to over 12-15 people today with more coming. It is definetely emerging and growing.
Having a 10 min main is too short, 15 min is better. Here they run 15 min mains for trucks, buggys and 4wd. 15 min is in range of 4s 5000 when setup properly.
Having a 10 min main is too short, 15 min is better. Here they run 15 min mains for trucks, buggys and 4wd. 15 min is in range of 4s 5000 when setup properly.
02-16-2009, 05:04 PM
#64
If somebody shows up to our track with a dangerous "Toy", and does something stupid, they are asked to leave. I bet you'd find it like that at most tracks, and ROAR sanctioned tracks in particular. If you demonstrate a lack of ability to control something dangerous, or respect for you fellow racer, yet continue to endanger them with bodily harm, I'd expect nothing less. 8 lbs plus 40+ mph impact to human skull... not a pretty picture.
If you come to race, you should understand it is NOT a "Free for all" as you would have it. Bashing is for people that buy these thinking they are "Toys". We RACE, and our hobby grade RC race cars are not "Toys". This is also one of the reasons few racers want to spot for the novice classes. There really should be a simple sense of personal responsibility.
I didn't say noobs shouldn't be aloud to race. They shouldn't be aloud to endanger people, what fun is that?
If you come to race, you should understand it is NOT a "Free for all" as you would have it. Bashing is for people that buy these thinking they are "Toys". We RACE, and our hobby grade RC race cars are not "Toys". This is also one of the reasons few racers want to spot for the novice classes. There really should be a simple sense of personal responsibility.
I didn't say noobs shouldn't be aloud to race. They shouldn't be aloud to endanger people, what fun is that?
any class can be dangerous with the wrong people. jus as a noob can get into 1/10th scale class, they should be able to get into 1/8th scale class...
02-16-2009, 05:06 PM
#65
first, we are not minding a 4S setup. second, one of the benefits of 1/8th scale racing in the long mains. I ABS LOVE THAT. if anything, i say come with a quick change lipo system and do 30min mains with one battery swap.
Personally, i like running 15 mins with the nitro. i would not want that removed. for big races, 30 mins with a lipo swap...
Personally, i like running 15 mins with the nitro. i would not want that removed. for big races, 30 mins with a lipo swap...
That way, you could use smaller capacity packs for heats, and larger for mains, or... more or less capacity/cells for different tracks. 
I really think that making a sanctioned space for batteries, rather than sanctioned batteries leave the racer more options to adapt to his track/car. It's kinda like receiver packs on the nitros, there's space for li-po/nimh/hump packs/flat packs, etc...
02-16-2009, 05:19 PM
#67
If somebody shows up to our track with a dangerous "Toy", and does something stupid, they are asked to leave. I bet you'd find it like that at most tracks, and ROAR sanctioned tracks in particular. If you demonstrate a lack of ability to control something dangerous, or respect for you fellow racer, yet continue to endanger them with bodily harm, I'd expect nothing less. 8 lbs plus 40+ mph impact to human skull... not a pretty picture.
If you come to race, you should understand it is NOT a "Free for all" as you would have it. Bashing is for people that buy these thinking they are "Toys". We RACE, and our hobby grade RC race cars are not "Toys". This is also one of the reasons few racers want to spot for the novice classes. There really should be a simple sense of personal responsibility.
I didn't say noobs shouldn't be aloud to race. They shouldn't be aloud to endanger people, what fun is that?
If you come to race, you should understand it is NOT a "Free for all" as you would have it. Bashing is for people that buy these thinking they are "Toys". We RACE, and our hobby grade RC race cars are not "Toys". This is also one of the reasons few racers want to spot for the novice classes. There really should be a simple sense of personal responsibility.
I didn't say noobs shouldn't be aloud to race. They shouldn't be aloud to endanger people, what fun is that?
"If you come to race, you should understand it is NOT a "Free for all" as you would have it. Bashing is for people that buy these thinking they are "Toys". We RACE, and our hobby grade RC race cars are not "Toys". This is also one of the reasons few racers want to spot for the novice classes. There really should be a simple sense of personal responsibility."- R40Victim
a free for all is not what i was implying(or in your words AS I WOULD HAVE IT), more or less rules but not so demanding as to make everybody buy batteries that are approved or have a hard case or motor size.
as for these being TOYS since i think that way i am a basher now come on man? my dirt bike is a toy to me anything that is not a necessity is a toy to me.
as for personal responsibility i have it and so should everybody else whom races.
02-16-2009, 05:28 PM
#68
I atleast would like to see the manufacturers or whoever come up with a standard size for batteries. Im not talkin cells or capacity either, Im talkin bout dimensions of the pack. Right now it seems like "pack A" will fit these cars, "pack B" these cars and etc. etc. Ibelieve it would be in the racers best intrest for this to happen so the battery companies could concentrate their efforts rather than picking a size to make and hoping its the right one. This should also decrease pricing on packs also since they dont have to be tooled to make so many sized packs.
02-16-2009, 05:42 PM
#69
I atleast would like to see the manufacturers or whoever come up with a standard size for batteries. Im not talkin cells or capacity either, Im talkin bout dimensions of the pack. Right now it seems like "pack A" will fit these cars, "pack B" these cars and etc. etc. Ibelieve it would be in the racers best intrest for this to happen so the battery companies could concentrate their efforts rather than picking a size to make and hoping its the right one. This should also decrease pricing on packs also since they dont have to be tooled to make so many sized packs.
8.3.2.3.3 The maximum 4s brick/stick style case shall be as follows:
Length: 160 mm
Width: 52mm
Height: 52mm
02-16-2009, 05:45 PM
#70
I agree that a longer races can be more fun and less serious but one of the bonuses of running electric is that you don't need a pit guy and that makes this class a much easier integration into a nitro race day format because you don't have to stalk the pits for a pit person or beg someone to marshal for you when the finals collide your pitting and marshalling duties. I see us racing our own class within a nitro club once the numbers pick up because I think we have a lot in common with nitros so should race alongside them but maybe not in the same race if we have the numbers and maybe in a modified format like 3x10minute mains and 10 minute qualifiers. I've said it before that the main should be a multiple of the qualifier or very close so there's no advantage to owning lighter qualifying batteries. This will keep the cost down for self sponsored drivers so if the finals are infact longer, we can mandate a minimum pitstop requirement or do the 3x10 main format.
02-16-2009, 05:45 PM
#71
Tech Master
I atleast would like to see the manufacturers or whoever come up with a standard size for batteries. Im not talkin cells or capacity either, Im talkin bout dimensions of the pack. Right now it seems like "pack A" will fit these cars, "pack B" these cars and etc. etc. Ibelieve it would be in the racers best intrest for this to happen so the battery companies could concentrate their efforts rather than picking a size to make and hoping its the right one. This should also decrease pricing on packs also since they dont have to be tooled to make so many sized packs.
This year will be a year of development - I think a good dose of common sense is needed. ROAR, I'm sure, will view this as a fluid class with regard to rules. Our primary prototype (Empire Racing eMP9) will run a hard case battery to be safe during race days. Testing, well, that remains open - nothing will be ruled out. We need to evaluate a large spectrum of information to maximize this class.
On a side note - We are waiting to see what are "available" hard case sizes for our M3, electric 1/8th On Road, project
02-16-2009, 06:13 PM
#72
eh......... coming from 1/10th scale electric i find the 4s 2x2 ideal. even a 4s 1x1 is fine. That makes it easy to get into for some people. The low Kv with high voltage idea is cool but i doubt the mainstream will go with that approach.
continuity is key !.
continuity is key !.
02-16-2009, 06:15 PM
#73
Me too, why limit the electrics when the nitros have hour long mains in some cases. A quick change system would support both the main battery ideas. A hard case pack that snaps into place. Or, a hard case mounted to the car, with some kind of fast/easy connector for an array of soft packs. That way, you could use smaller capacity packs for heats, and larger for mains, or... more or less capacity/cells for different tracks. I really think that making a sanctioned space for batteries, rather than sanctioned batteries leave the racer more options to adapt to his track/car. It's kinda like receiver packs on the nitros, there's space for li-po/nimh/hump packs/flat packs, etc...
That way, you could use smaller capacity packs for heats, and larger for mains, or... more or less capacity/cells for different tracks. I really think that making a sanctioned space for batteries, rather than sanctioned batteries leave the racer more options to adapt to his track/car. It's kinda like receiver packs on the nitros, there's space for li-po/nimh/hump packs/flat packs, etc...A quick snap system into the batt tray with lipo 'boxes' for each battery would be really cool. Integrate a connector into it and you have a pit stop almost as fast as a nitro.
02-16-2009, 06:20 PM
#74
great minds think alike. i thought about that months ago. an integrated system where you can plug your lipo into a case that snaps on your chassis. once you snap the case onto the chassis, it also connects your battery with your ESC. you have have a case per lipo to be ready for a quick change... that's ideal!!!
02-16-2009, 06:32 PM
#75
Unfortunately,the majority of people being introduced to e8 scale is not 1/10 scale guys.These are nitro converts.So your point is not so strong.Not saying your approach is wrong,but we need to think outside the 1/10 scale box.More voltage/less KV=More efficiency,its easier on the electronics,and have plenty of manageable power.People concerns with a 4 cell limit is not unfounded.If we take a page from the AIR guys,we would not even be having this debate.Same crap started when Brushless was new.The car sector of the hobby is so far behind as usual,and we need to make sure when setting rules early,they don't discourage participation because one small group of people that have an agenda.Thats a completely different issue altogether.