4LikesTamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X
05-19-2009, 12:18 AM
#5461
I live in Perth.
About xray, I am not sure the company you named is officially the xray importer (i.e. has a contract of exclusivity with Xray) because we have a numebr of people here in WA who import xray stuff and sell it in their shops.
As for TT they are just revolting to deal with. Six month waiting for spares order through your local hobby shop would push anyone out of the hobby altogether. And the excuse with the Japanese wholesale pricing I think is just baloney. if that was the case, everybody would be priced out of the market and the entire world would buy Tamiya off HK shops on the web.
My personal opinion is that it is the Australian import charges plus the Australian parallel import legislation plus Australian pricing structure (read huge overheads) that drives prices up in Oz, not anything else. That is based on prices for other cars like the Avid and Xray that come from Europe and have huge prices here, so TT excuse doesn't play here. If you look at it it is cheaper to buy stuff like this everywhere overseas rather than in Australia. It is only shipping and our weak currency that keeps us from buying from Europe directly for instance but on occasions (when our dollar goes up) it actually tips the balance (I have bought a lot of stuff from Europe that way when our dollar was higher). That's why I think TT is just lame and they should just leave us alone and let someobody else pick up the import license from Tamiya. Numerous hobby shops around here have just given up on stocking anything Tamiya for that reason. Ultimately i see Tamiya will just lose interest in our market (which is small to begin with) and won't bother anymore. That will be a chance for somebody else to pick up the contract and do a proper job of it. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later.
About xray, I am not sure the company you named is officially the xray importer (i.e. has a contract of exclusivity with Xray) because we have a numebr of people here in WA who import xray stuff and sell it in their shops.
As for TT they are just revolting to deal with. Six month waiting for spares order through your local hobby shop would push anyone out of the hobby altogether. And the excuse with the Japanese wholesale pricing I think is just baloney. if that was the case, everybody would be priced out of the market and the entire world would buy Tamiya off HK shops on the web.
My personal opinion is that it is the Australian import charges plus the Australian parallel import legislation plus Australian pricing structure (read huge overheads) that drives prices up in Oz, not anything else. That is based on prices for other cars like the Avid and Xray that come from Europe and have huge prices here, so TT excuse doesn't play here. If you look at it it is cheaper to buy stuff like this everywhere overseas rather than in Australia. It is only shipping and our weak currency that keeps us from buying from Europe directly for instance but on occasions (when our dollar goes up) it actually tips the balance (I have bought a lot of stuff from Europe that way when our dollar was higher). That's why I think TT is just lame and they should just leave us alone and let someobody else pick up the import license from Tamiya. Numerous hobby shops around here have just given up on stocking anything Tamiya for that reason. Ultimately i see Tamiya will just lose interest in our market (which is small to begin with) and won't bother anymore. That will be a chance for somebody else to pick up the contract and do a proper job of it. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later.
Tamiya do infact have a dual procing model, their excuse is that 95% of their sales are in Japan, and they have fierce competition with HPI in Japan, so they discount to the local market.
I have been in meetings with the owner of TT, and Mr Tamiya himself, as well as a couple of his flunkies, and they acknowledged this fact.
TT's buy price is roughly equivalent to the in store retail price in japan (and for those that have not been in one of these shops, there are numerous proce categories, the lowest being paid in person in cash, and its quite a large difference to their internet / email orders.
How HK get around this is dont know, i would assume they partner with a Japanese retailer and buy goods in bulk, then ship privately to HK.
Tamiya used to be known for their well priced and equipped low to mid level cars, nowadays with all the cheaper, better equipped rtr competition, Tamiya has sort of lost their way, just like David Jones the department retailer, they are neither competitive in the low end goods nor the high end David Jones style goods.
Its unfortunate, but its the facts, this has even been the case in Europe, America and England. Same story, just priced out of the market.
05-19-2009, 12:22 AM
#5462
CMC is the official importer in Aus, however i do believe their exclusivity rights expired earlier this year.
You will find that most people who import some Xray stuff are doing so through another asian countries importer, not direct from Xray.
05-19-2009, 06:36 AM
#5464
It just pisses me off that I order diff parts like the screw for the 416 and its been over a month now. I wonder how long before I get my replacement one way. It's Probably pirated out in the Pacific ocean right now.
05-19-2009, 06:45 AM
#5465
I really hope somebody does, Its a real shame because I think die hard tamiya fans like myself would still pay a premium for a TRF car locally ( and that the parts were readily available - but id guess id be dreaming!). Its a shame to see that we get every model of the TT-01 here but never an "R" version or a TRF model here in Australia. I understand that the entry level kits are prodominant sellers but when left with the choice of a TT-01 or a base model TA05 over a full racing spec chassis from another manufacturer on the shelf of your LHS, I think an oppportunity is lost. Not to carry on about something i cant change and is not relevant to most people in this thread, but i believe in this product and wish it got supported by the distributers down here.
On another note thanks Craig for the spring combos (sorry for the delay in response for that one), they work great and i've been running them ever since, its really supprising how a diffent make of spring can react so differently. Now hopefully the car is setup well enough for the Victorian titles in 2 weekends time, cant wait!
.
Steve
On another note thanks Craig for the spring combos (sorry for the delay in response for that one), they work great and i've been running them ever since, its really supprising how a diffent make of spring can react so differently. Now hopefully the car is setup well enough for the Victorian titles in 2 weekends time, cant wait!
.Steve
05-19-2009, 06:51 AM
#5466
The continued lack of parts support in the US has me keeping a very close eye on the new TOP car. I really do love the 416, but waiting 3 weeks for parts from HK is very tiring. If the TOP US importer is able to keep a good supply of parts in the states at a reasonable price, it might be time for a change.
05-19-2009, 07:57 AM
#5468
05-19-2009, 07:58 AM
#5469
that is exactly my view. If people can do it with other manufacturers I don't understand why they don't do it with Tamiya. One possible answer is that TT in NSW has exclusivity and Tamiya wouldn't sell to anyone else and the HK route is not financially viable.
On the topic of how do they get those prices in HK I think we have to look at their tax/import policies to find the answer. Buying bulk from Japan is just part of the answer. mr Tamiya's answer ont he other hand I think takes into account all the Tamiya products, some of which have a low turnaround in HK shops (plastics, etc). If R/C Tamiya products were indeed meant to sell 95% ont he Japanese market, Mr Tamiya would have given up this bussiness a long time ago. The US market alone is twice that of Japan, so I don't think anyone in their right economical/financial capitalist mind would give that up at a stroke.
Back to mr Tamiya's answer. Let's say it's true, and take it as a fact.
The fact that 95% of their market is Japan is going to lead them to extinction. We live in a global market and if you can't compete you're out. Look at the american car manufacturers. It is true, the quality of Tamiya products doesn't compare to that of american cars, but the point is the same. There are inexorable economic laws that will see anyone with their eggs in one basket share the fate of their chosen market. If that collapses, they follow. The recent copies coming out of China might be just a first warning shot. If Tamiya doesn't rethink their overseas presence policy they will be at best relegated to a japanese-only company. I am not sure why Mr Tamiya would turn down potential profits ten times larger than those possible at home in Japan (after all the world is a market about 40 times that of Japan), but this sounds in tune with other companies based in Japan which share the introverted market policy.
And no, I don't think they were priced out of the market anywhere in the world. Or at least I don't think that's the primary reason why they do not have the presence we would like to see. It is their own strategy that keeps them out of certain markets int he first place. I don't deny there may be other factors here and there that compound to drive them to the fringe, but it is primarily their own fault. And lack of consideration for their fans. And that is inexcusable in my eyes. I take offence and refuse to give them my money. If they want my money they have to offer customer support in a timely manner and everything else as most manufacturers of consumer goods do.
For John StAmant.
There are very good american distributors of metric size screws nuts and bolts. Why would you go buy it from Tamiya when you can buy it ten times cheaper from your friendly metric man it is beyond me. If you can't find anyone just google "metric screw". Metric 2 (M2) and 2.5 (M2.5) and metric 3 (M3) are common sizes and they are on stock in various lengths, heads (allen, hex, slot, cap, button, etc) and so on, way beyond your needs. Same for nuts. You can even find M2 nyloc nuts in the US. Trust me, if you're in the US and are buying screws from Tamiya, you're getting screwed (ha-ha) badly.
To my surprise (and the american market's credit) I have found some really difficult to get metric sizes in America (in Australia they simply did not exist anywhere) where I thought everybody was imperial for the rest of eternity! I've learned my lesson and don't discount anyone off the cuff anymore.
On the topic of how do they get those prices in HK I think we have to look at their tax/import policies to find the answer. Buying bulk from Japan is just part of the answer. mr Tamiya's answer ont he other hand I think takes into account all the Tamiya products, some of which have a low turnaround in HK shops (plastics, etc). If R/C Tamiya products were indeed meant to sell 95% ont he Japanese market, Mr Tamiya would have given up this bussiness a long time ago. The US market alone is twice that of Japan, so I don't think anyone in their right economical/financial capitalist mind would give that up at a stroke.
Back to mr Tamiya's answer. Let's say it's true, and take it as a fact.
The fact that 95% of their market is Japan is going to lead them to extinction. We live in a global market and if you can't compete you're out. Look at the american car manufacturers. It is true, the quality of Tamiya products doesn't compare to that of american cars, but the point is the same. There are inexorable economic laws that will see anyone with their eggs in one basket share the fate of their chosen market. If that collapses, they follow. The recent copies coming out of China might be just a first warning shot. If Tamiya doesn't rethink their overseas presence policy they will be at best relegated to a japanese-only company. I am not sure why Mr Tamiya would turn down potential profits ten times larger than those possible at home in Japan (after all the world is a market about 40 times that of Japan), but this sounds in tune with other companies based in Japan which share the introverted market policy.
And no, I don't think they were priced out of the market anywhere in the world. Or at least I don't think that's the primary reason why they do not have the presence we would like to see. It is their own strategy that keeps them out of certain markets int he first place. I don't deny there may be other factors here and there that compound to drive them to the fringe, but it is primarily their own fault. And lack of consideration for their fans. And that is inexcusable in my eyes. I take offence and refuse to give them my money. If they want my money they have to offer customer support in a timely manner and everything else as most manufacturers of consumer goods do.
For John StAmant.
There are very good american distributors of metric size screws nuts and bolts. Why would you go buy it from Tamiya when you can buy it ten times cheaper from your friendly metric man it is beyond me. If you can't find anyone just google "metric screw". Metric 2 (M2) and 2.5 (M2.5) and metric 3 (M3) are common sizes and they are on stock in various lengths, heads (allen, hex, slot, cap, button, etc) and so on, way beyond your needs. Same for nuts. You can even find M2 nyloc nuts in the US. Trust me, if you're in the US and are buying screws from Tamiya, you're getting screwed (ha-ha) badly.
To my surprise (and the american market's credit) I have found some really difficult to get metric sizes in America (in Australia they simply did not exist anywhere) where I thought everybody was imperial for the rest of eternity! I've learned my lesson and don't discount anyone off the cuff anymore.
Last edited by niznai; 05-19-2009 at 08:10 AM.
05-19-2009, 08:17 AM
#5470
Here is a few examples of end user cost differences between
TamiyaUSA vs Champ R/C Japan.
Champ R/C TamiyaUSA
Ti hinge pins $4.41 / $10.50
Short Arms $5.88 / $11.50
C-hubs $4.12 / $7.50
St. Knuckles $3.68 / $6.50
Alum Universals$8.82 / $17.00
[email protected]
TamiyaUSA vs Champ R/C Japan.
Champ R/C TamiyaUSA
Ti hinge pins $4.41 / $10.50
Short Arms $5.88 / $11.50
C-hubs $4.12 / $7.50
St. Knuckles $3.68 / $6.50
Alum Universals$8.82 / $17.00
[email protected]
05-19-2009, 08:27 AM
#5471
Here is a few examples of end user cost differences between
TamiyaUSA vs Champ R/C Japan.
Champ R/C TamiyaUSA
Ti hinge pins $4.41 / $10.50
Short Arms $5.88 / $11.50
C-hubs $4.12 / $7.50
St. Knuckles $3.68 / $6.50
Alum Universals$8.82 / $17.00
[email protected]
TamiyaUSA vs Champ R/C Japan.
Champ R/C TamiyaUSA
Ti hinge pins $4.41 / $10.50
Short Arms $5.88 / $11.50
C-hubs $4.12 / $7.50
St. Knuckles $3.68 / $6.50
Alum Universals$8.82 / $17.00
[email protected]
05-19-2009, 08:32 AM
#5472
For John StAmant.
There are very good american distributors of metric size screws nuts and bolts. Why would you go buy it from Tamiya when you can buy it ten times cheaper from your friendly metric man it is beyond me. If you can't find anyone just google "metric screw". Metric 2 (M2) and 2.5 (M2.5) and metric 3 (M3) are common sizes and they are on stock in various lengths, heads (allen, hex, slot, cap, button, etc) and so on, way beyond your needs. Same for nuts. You can even find M2 nyloc nuts in the US. Trust me, if you're in the US and are buying screws from Tamiya, you're getting screwed (ha-ha) badly.
To my surprise (and the american market's credit) I have found some really difficult to get metric sizes in America (in Australia they simply did not exist anywhere) where I thought everybody was imperial for the rest of eternity! I've learned my lesson and don't discount anyone off the cuff anymore.[/QUOTE]
Oh ... I've got normal metric screws yes . But this diff screw is 2x22 and has a shoulder for passing smoothly through the 2 diff halves and a nice wide flat head for adjusting the diff through the long half.. kind of like the Losi. This way you do not have to remove anything to tweak it. Special part #9804374
There are very good american distributors of metric size screws nuts and bolts. Why would you go buy it from Tamiya when you can buy it ten times cheaper from your friendly metric man it is beyond me. If you can't find anyone just google "metric screw". Metric 2 (M2) and 2.5 (M2.5) and metric 3 (M3) are common sizes and they are on stock in various lengths, heads (allen, hex, slot, cap, button, etc) and so on, way beyond your needs. Same for nuts. You can even find M2 nyloc nuts in the US. Trust me, if you're in the US and are buying screws from Tamiya, you're getting screwed (ha-ha) badly.
To my surprise (and the american market's credit) I have found some really difficult to get metric sizes in America (in Australia they simply did not exist anywhere) where I thought everybody was imperial for the rest of eternity! I've learned my lesson and don't discount anyone off the cuff anymore.[/QUOTE]
Oh ... I've got normal metric screws yes . But this diff screw is 2x22 and has a shoulder for passing smoothly through the 2 diff halves and a nice wide flat head for adjusting the diff through the long half.. kind of like the Losi. This way you do not have to remove anything to tweak it. Special part #9804374
05-19-2009, 08:53 AM
#5473
Here is a few examples of end user cost differences between
TamiyaUSA vs Champ R/C Japan.
Champ R/C TamiyaUSA
Ti hinge pins $4.41 / $10.50
Short Arms $5.88 / $11.50
C-hubs $4.12 / $7.50
St. Knuckles $3.68 / $6.50
Alum Universals$8.82 / $17.00
[email protected]
TamiyaUSA vs Champ R/C Japan.
Champ R/C TamiyaUSA
Ti hinge pins $4.41 / $10.50
Short Arms $5.88 / $11.50
C-hubs $4.12 / $7.50
St. Knuckles $3.68 / $6.50
Alum Universals$8.82 / $17.00
[email protected]
I can't join this debate however, call it a conflict of interest.
05-19-2009, 09:17 AM
#5474
I can't believe some people don't know about the companies that advertise on this very forum! I often see the ad for RC champ in my browser on this site. Do we have an ad free version of the site perhaps for paying members?
For John StAmant
You can't be that addicted to Tamiya! Just buy a "normal" Allen key head screw and that has a big enough head for you to put a slot in. Really.
05-19-2009, 11:17 AM
#5475
Where can I get the hard front bumper ( like the P-Dub racing ) for 416???