XXX-S vs Mission
10-28-2003, 10:33 AM
#1
XXX-S vs Mission
Greetings all!
I am new to this RC business (well the last time I drove one was when I was about 12 - at which point I drove it into a kerb), and after having bought a XXX-S for my fiance for his birthday I have gotten the bug myself, and am wondering if I should get my own gear so that I can join him.
The two kits I am looking at are the Losi XXX-S (not graphite) and the Schumacher Mission. I am posting this here as opposed to the newbie forum as I am looking for a specific comparison between these two, rather than general tips. If I am going to go the whole hog and spend a lot of money, I might as well get something that is able to compete, even if I begin with zero driving skill. Here are some things I would like to know about the two...
1. I am pretty much a complete beginner to driving. Granted that driving skill makes one hell of a difference to the performance of the car, which is likely to be more forgiving on me?
2. I am likely to dink it quite a bit. I hope at no point to accidentally stand on it, but it's possible:P Which will take more punishment?
3. How do the two compare to each other handling-wise/acceleration/top speed etc. Assuming that I will crash a lot, I suppose good acceleration (from a standing/upsidedown start) could be useful.
4. For people in the UK, how do you find availability of parts?
I am quite prepared to build the kit myself, having done a variety of similar fiddly exercises in the past, and I figure that if I built it I might get a better understanding of what the different bits do, and how to fix it if it goes wrong.
On the one hand I could go XXX-S as my fiance has one, and we would only need to stock one variety of spares.
On the other hand his brother has a Mission and he seems to do very well with it. Plus it's just something different, rather than just getting to see Losis.
Also, on speed controllers - Is getting one that is capable of reverse a big nono, or not? I like the idea of being able to turn myself around (I do expect to crash a lot), but am I likely to lose any forward motion in return for the ability to go backwards?
Any thoughts on what you like/dislike about these cars would be much appreciated. Getting an itchy shopping finger....
I am new to this RC business (well the last time I drove one was when I was about 12 - at which point I drove it into a kerb), and after having bought a XXX-S for my fiance for his birthday I have gotten the bug myself, and am wondering if I should get my own gear so that I can join him.
The two kits I am looking at are the Losi XXX-S (not graphite) and the Schumacher Mission. I am posting this here as opposed to the newbie forum as I am looking for a specific comparison between these two, rather than general tips. If I am going to go the whole hog and spend a lot of money, I might as well get something that is able to compete, even if I begin with zero driving skill. Here are some things I would like to know about the two...
1. I am pretty much a complete beginner to driving. Granted that driving skill makes one hell of a difference to the performance of the car, which is likely to be more forgiving on me?
2. I am likely to dink it quite a bit. I hope at no point to accidentally stand on it, but it's possible:P Which will take more punishment?
3. How do the two compare to each other handling-wise/acceleration/top speed etc. Assuming that I will crash a lot, I suppose good acceleration (from a standing/upsidedown start) could be useful.
4. For people in the UK, how do you find availability of parts?
I am quite prepared to build the kit myself, having done a variety of similar fiddly exercises in the past, and I figure that if I built it I might get a better understanding of what the different bits do, and how to fix it if it goes wrong.
On the one hand I could go XXX-S as my fiance has one, and we would only need to stock one variety of spares.
On the other hand his brother has a Mission and he seems to do very well with it. Plus it's just something different, rather than just getting to see Losis.
Also, on speed controllers - Is getting one that is capable of reverse a big nono, or not? I like the idea of being able to turn myself around (I do expect to crash a lot), but am I likely to lose any forward motion in return for the ability to go backwards?
Any thoughts on what you like/dislike about these cars would be much appreciated. Getting an itchy shopping finger....
10-28-2003, 11:36 AM
#2
G'day
Welcome to the forum and the hobby.
I've only driven a mission before not a xxx-s so, what I have to say about the two cars is mostly from what I've heard and seen of them.
Mission - I've heard they are a bit fiddly setup wise to get fast, but I've seen one at my local track that is very tough(I've never seen it break) and also pretty quick. When I drove a friends mission it felt very numb and not responsive at all(which I disliked), but I'm used to an extremely responsive car. I'm sure I could have set it up to my likeing, but it wasn't my car.
XXX-S - Firstly they are also fast but are more fragile IMO(I've seen them break quite a bit). I've heard there easier to setup then the mission.
If you want a mission I would suggest you wait for the mission 2 which(I think) will be out by the end of this year. Both the Mission and the XXX-S are solid cars and can be quick if setup and driven correctely.
With ESC's I'd say get one with reverse cut-off so you can use it during practice so you don't have to get off the drivers stand all the time but lock out reverse for racing. I have a keyence A07-rz which has reverse cut-out, I used to use it when I first started but now I just leave it as fwd brk full time. Once you get better at driving there is no need for rev. Fwd/brk esc's are supposed to chew less power but I see no advantage on the track from using a fwd/brk only esc.
Hope this helps.
P.s. It's great to see more girls in the hobby. Have fun.
Welcome to the forum and the hobby.
I've only driven a mission before not a xxx-s so, what I have to say about the two cars is mostly from what I've heard and seen of them.
Mission - I've heard they are a bit fiddly setup wise to get fast, but I've seen one at my local track that is very tough(I've never seen it break) and also pretty quick. When I drove a friends mission it felt very numb and not responsive at all(which I disliked), but I'm used to an extremely responsive car. I'm sure I could have set it up to my likeing, but it wasn't my car.
XXX-S - Firstly they are also fast but are more fragile IMO(I've seen them break quite a bit). I've heard there easier to setup then the mission.
If you want a mission I would suggest you wait for the mission 2 which(I think) will be out by the end of this year. Both the Mission and the XXX-S are solid cars and can be quick if setup and driven correctely.
With ESC's I'd say get one with reverse cut-off so you can use it during practice so you don't have to get off the drivers stand all the time but lock out reverse for racing. I have a keyence A07-rz which has reverse cut-out, I used to use it when I first started but now I just leave it as fwd brk full time. Once you get better at driving there is no need for rev. Fwd/brk esc's are supposed to chew less power but I see no advantage on the track from using a fwd/brk only esc.
Hope this helps.
P.s. It's great to see more girls in the hobby. Have fun.
Last edited by fatdoggy; 10-29-2003 at 11:16 AM.
10-28-2003, 01:36 PM
#3
Hey, where abouts in the UK are you? I race a mission so am a bit biased but id say that the mission will take more punishment than an xxx-s. Performance wise i get beaten by xxx-s' but also beat lots of them myself so i wouldn't say theres much difference for a beginner. Spares for a mission i get from http://www.apexmodels.com they have all parts in stock and you can order online and get them the next day. As for the ESC Ive never raced with one with reverse, it can often cause more trouble than good especially with people who reverse from a crash back onto the racing line.
10-29-2003, 05:22 AM
#4
Well, so far the mission is looking good just due to ruggedness. Anyone from the Losi camp have anything to say?
10-29-2003, 05:51 AM
#5
Well I've never actualy owned either so I just go by what two club mates have had with their cars.
Both cars can be as fast as each other and in the UK parts availability is pretty much the same, no worries really in either department.
One of the guys that pits with me has his cousin with him who races a mission and it goes plenty fast enough, but the boy does have the usual begginer crashes. He's broken a lot of parts, it was about an a-arm a week for a month
and he's also had a lot of problems with bending and breaking turnbuckle links. This is from a heavy crasher though, some people start by trying to go too fast too soon.
I've also seen the Losi to be weak, a few bent hingepins and more broken a-arms. Haven't seen too many broken parts recently thanks to the drivers improving, or changing cars.
I don't think there's much to choose between the two, but I would go with the Losi in your situation, not only do you get the advantage of less parts to stock but you can also help each other with setups.
As for reversing speedo's, they can help a new driver need less marshaling but IMO in the long run they hinder the driver. As they have less incentive to avoid crashing. Plus it annoys other drivers a lot when you back out into there car, if you've not got reverse they can atleast know where to expect your car to go if it's stationary on the track.
Both cars can be as fast as each other and in the UK parts availability is pretty much the same, no worries really in either department.
One of the guys that pits with me has his cousin with him who races a mission and it goes plenty fast enough, but the boy does have the usual begginer crashes. He's broken a lot of parts, it was about an a-arm a week for a month
and he's also had a lot of problems with bending and breaking turnbuckle links. This is from a heavy crasher though, some people start by trying to go too fast too soon.I've also seen the Losi to be weak, a few bent hingepins and more broken a-arms. Haven't seen too many broken parts recently thanks to the drivers improving, or changing cars.
I don't think there's much to choose between the two, but I would go with the Losi in your situation, not only do you get the advantage of less parts to stock but you can also help each other with setups.
As for reversing speedo's, they can help a new driver need less marshaling but IMO in the long run they hinder the driver. As they have less incentive to avoid crashing. Plus it annoys other drivers a lot when you back out into there car, if you've not got reverse they can atleast know where to expect your car to go if it's stationary on the track.
10-29-2003, 05:59 AM
#6
Another good car to get in the UK that is fairly strong is the Xray T1 Raycer. Its pretty bullet proof and quick, if you wanted more speed or options in the future theres plenty of hopups for it as well. Lots of UK shops, two big ones mainly but i dont think we can post links here due to them being a competitor?
10-29-2003, 09:12 AM
#7
Thanks for the mention of the Xray berger, but one of the deciding factors in my final choice of candidates was price, and I think the mission and XXX-S are about the kind of money I am looking to spend.
At the moment I am leaning towards mission due to durability and also because it's something different to look at as opposed to another XXX-S. Regarding breaking, my fiance got a broken rear hub carrier on his Losi from a smack into a moving object, and he had mentioned that they seem to be a little less rigid than he might like.
I think i may end up going for a reverse cut off speed controller, just so that I have the option of reverse if I need it. The suggestion of turning it off while actually racing is probably a good idea, due to the amount of fast moving traffic that's always on the racing line.
And for Ian S, I am in Worthing in the Southeast
At the moment I am leaning towards mission due to durability and also because it's something different to look at as opposed to another XXX-S. Regarding breaking, my fiance got a broken rear hub carrier on his Losi from a smack into a moving object, and he had mentioned that they seem to be a little less rigid than he might like.
I think i may end up going for a reverse cut off speed controller, just so that I have the option of reverse if I need it. The suggestion of turning it off while actually racing is probably a good idea, due to the amount of fast moving traffic that's always on the racing line.
And for Ian S, I am in Worthing in the Southeast
10-29-2003, 10:18 AM
#8
Mission vs XXXS
You've got alot of good feedback to help with your decision. I have been racing Schumachers for the last 3 years (Axis2 and Mission) Its the only sedans I've ever owned. They are VERY forgiving running into the boards. Fellow racers at our track are amazed at what the chassis can take (says alot for my driving skills, huh?) I would reccomend the Mission for sure, the new Mission (Mi2) has a C hub design, as opposed to upper and lower wishbones (on the current Mission). That might make the Mission more durable than the new kit ( I don't know this for sure) Have fun with your new hobby.
10-29-2003, 10:39 AM
#9
The Losi Graphite parts are much more durable than the standard composite parts because they are not as porious.
As for set-up, the Losi is much easier for me to set-up and get fast.... did I mention I owned both...LOL
However I would wait for the Mission 2 it's supposed to have a c-hub suspension and new drivetrain layout to make for a much better balanced car... should be fast!!!
As for set-up, the Losi is much easier for me to set-up and get fast.... did I mention I owned both...LOL
However I would wait for the Mission 2 it's supposed to have a c-hub suspension and new drivetrain layout to make for a much better balanced car... should be fast!!!
10-29-2003, 10:47 AM
#10
I think I went against the Graphite due to the price, I dont have a whole ton to spend and I didnt see much of an improvement over the regular xxx-s other than durability.
I know the Mission 2 isnt out yet, but does anybody have an estimated price tag on it UK?
I know the Mission 2 isnt out yet, but does anybody have an estimated price tag on it UK?
10-29-2003, 12:27 PM
#11
Tech Rookie
Swoosh has seen my XXX-S and the problems I have had with it so far. (I am Swoosh's fiance she mentioned). I have had a problem with the rear diff basically melting, not sure why that was. Was probably me using superglue instead of diff lube when I built it lol.
Also as she mentioned, I broke a rear hub the other day when racing, someone kindly pushed a huge section of boarding out in front of me, wheel hit it when I tried to swerve and that was that. :) Have replaced the front and rear hubs with blue aluminium ones, they look sweet, and hopefully should be a bit more durable.
I have noticed when comparing my XXX-S to my brothers Mission, his seems a lot more punchy and seems to handle better straight out of the box. Mine does have a higher top end though. (Both using Revenge of the Monster)
We are all fairly new to the hobby though, so I should imagine that once we have tuned the settings a bit there won't be much between them. (Hopefully will have a couple more rain-free race days to tweak things a bit)
I would say that the Mission does seem to be a better quality kit for the money, bearing in mind that the XXX-S comes with a shell but was about £30 more expensive than the Mission. The Mission to me seems stronger and just 'feels' more like a race car, if that makes sense.
Anyhoo, enough of my inane ramblings :)
Rain
Also as she mentioned, I broke a rear hub the other day when racing, someone kindly pushed a huge section of boarding out in front of me, wheel hit it when I tried to swerve and that was that. :) Have replaced the front and rear hubs with blue aluminium ones, they look sweet, and hopefully should be a bit more durable.
I have noticed when comparing my XXX-S to my brothers Mission, his seems a lot more punchy and seems to handle better straight out of the box. Mine does have a higher top end though. (Both using Revenge of the Monster)
We are all fairly new to the hobby though, so I should imagine that once we have tuned the settings a bit there won't be much between them. (Hopefully will have a couple more rain-free race days to tweak things a bit)
I would say that the Mission does seem to be a better quality kit for the money, bearing in mind that the XXX-S comes with a shell but was about £30 more expensive than the Mission. The Mission to me seems stronger and just 'feels' more like a race car, if that makes sense.
Anyhoo, enough of my inane ramblings :)
Rain
10-29-2003, 12:57 PM
#12
Originally posted by Herminator
As for reversing speedo's, they can help a new driver need less marshaling but IMO in the long run they hinder the driver. As they have less incentive to avoid crashing. Plus it annoys other drivers a lot when you back out into there car, if you've not got reverse they can atleast know where to expect your car to go if it's stationary on the track.
As for reversing speedo's, they can help a new driver need less marshaling but IMO in the long run they hinder the driver. As they have less incentive to avoid crashing. Plus it annoys other drivers a lot when you back out into there car, if you've not got reverse they can atleast know where to expect your car to go if it's stationary on the track.
10-29-2003, 01:41 PM
#14
Heya Swoosh! Greetings from California USA. Its nice to see females in the sport. You are a rare Gem.
First off, both cars are quality, but there is one difference. Losi designes a chassis and drivetrain that can run on road, and off road. They always seem to make a car, then modify it and sell it in a different package (onroad, offroad).
The Schumacher team designs their TCs from scratch, from the ground up, SOLEY for onroad touring car racing. I personally think the mission is a better car.
I disagree with the folks about the MI2 however... at your level, the mission will be PLENTY OF CAR... it would take a long time before you outgrow the mission, and will be in the need for a mission2. Just FYI.. there are many many many used missions online for 100$.. Full alluminum upgrades.. etc. That might be a good idea.
First off, both cars are quality, but there is one difference. Losi designes a chassis and drivetrain that can run on road, and off road. They always seem to make a car, then modify it and sell it in a different package (onroad, offroad).
The Schumacher team designs their TCs from scratch, from the ground up, SOLEY for onroad touring car racing. I personally think the mission is a better car.
I disagree with the folks about the MI2 however... at your level, the mission will be PLENTY OF CAR... it would take a long time before you outgrow the mission, and will be in the need for a mission2. Just FYI.. there are many many many used missions online for 100$.. Full alluminum upgrades.. etc. That might be a good idea.
10-29-2003, 09:00 PM
#15
Originally posted by holycow
The Schumacher team designs their TCs from scratch, from the ground up
The Schumacher team designs their TCs from scratch, from the ground up
I also beg to differ have you taken a look at the Schumacher Cat 4wd off-road cars... they ALL have used teh same chassis configuration as the TC's...... so how is the Mission a better designed on-road car going by any of your statements???????
