EFRA decision. 5 cells -1350gr
11-20-2006, 02:25 AM
#226
Originally Posted by fathead
Can't remember where I read it now but they were within a couple 10ths of the 6cell mod cars on the same layout, they might LOOK slow but that will be because of the smaller difference between corner speed and straightline speed......
Here in Europe we often race outdoor on big nitro tracks, in the last 4 Euros, 3 were raced in tracks with HUGE straight..
11-20-2006, 04:00 AM
#227
The bellow is from the JMRCA 2006 Nationals thread which was just posted.
I think it is solid information from a person who was present at the event!
So Anders, are you still in favor of 4 cells..?
I think it is solid information from a person who was present at the event!
Originally Posted by John Pape
Ha ha ha ha, some funny things said on this thread. Right I am here in Japan right now, having assisted helping Chris Grainger from the UK.
Masamis car was an out of the box masami kit, with just the rear shock tower changed to the normal height one ie not the masami version. He was running a GM speedo, because he preferred the feel of it. Motor wise, 23T are you kidding man! He was running a 6turn, as were most people, it was just in the stock can, don't know why. Masami has a motor man from Yokomo, Kitizawa.
Hara ran both SMC and Checkpoint batteries, Duane was pitting next to him. Checkpoint motors looked very good. On Haras car the servo was mounted in the conventional place, what you can see is the receiver pack.Standard 6 cell chassis. He was using his normal Hara speedo. No new bits for the HB car, although the Moorspeed Worlds car is now available here.
There was a guy which made the main that ran the shaft drive worlds version yokomo, looked very good, easier to durate. I think most of the Yokomo team stuck with the belt car because they were just more comfortable with it.
Tamiya were unlucky with Marc, he made the B, finished 6th in that i think. Because the grip level decreased each day on the 1st day of qualifying you had to get your time in, unfortunately he didnt manage that and had to make do.
Everyone ran the Ride Stratus Mark III bodyshell, various shells were tested.
4 cell, unless you have properly raced it you cannot understand how hard it is, its destroys the cells in 1 run, because of the current the motor is pulling. So new cells every run. The motor has to be just right, although it does do alot more runs and doesent burn up. Duration is really tight, not one person can actually make 5 minutes, they all go flat on the last 3 laps, watch the videos! Even Masami, Hara etc.
Although they are pretty quick.
Masamis car was an out of the box masami kit, with just the rear shock tower changed to the normal height one ie not the masami version. He was running a GM speedo, because he preferred the feel of it. Motor wise, 23T are you kidding man! He was running a 6turn, as were most people, it was just in the stock can, don't know why. Masami has a motor man from Yokomo, Kitizawa.
Hara ran both SMC and Checkpoint batteries, Duane was pitting next to him. Checkpoint motors looked very good. On Haras car the servo was mounted in the conventional place, what you can see is the receiver pack.Standard 6 cell chassis. He was using his normal Hara speedo. No new bits for the HB car, although the Moorspeed Worlds car is now available here.
There was a guy which made the main that ran the shaft drive worlds version yokomo, looked very good, easier to durate. I think most of the Yokomo team stuck with the belt car because they were just more comfortable with it.
Tamiya were unlucky with Marc, he made the B, finished 6th in that i think. Because the grip level decreased each day on the 1st day of qualifying you had to get your time in, unfortunately he didnt manage that and had to make do.
Everyone ran the Ride Stratus Mark III bodyshell, various shells were tested.
4 cell, unless you have properly raced it you cannot understand how hard it is, its destroys the cells in 1 run, because of the current the motor is pulling. So new cells every run. The motor has to be just right, although it does do alot more runs and doesent burn up. Duration is really tight, not one person can actually make 5 minutes, they all go flat on the last 3 laps, watch the videos! Even Masami, Hara etc.
Although they are pretty quick.
So Anders, are you still in favor of 4 cells..?
11-20-2006, 04:20 AM
#228
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
The bellow is from the JMRCA 2006 Nationals thread which was just posted.
I think it is solid information from a person who was present at the event!
So Anders, are you still in favor of 4 cells..?
I think it is solid information from a person who was present at the event!
So Anders, are you still in favor of 4 cells..?
A nightmare comes true...
11-20-2006, 04:30 AM
#229
Tech Master
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
The bellow is from the JMRCA 2006 Nationals thread which was just posted.
I think it is solid information from a person who was present at the event!
So Anders, are you still in favor of 4 cells..?
I think it is solid information from a person who was present at the event!
So Anders, are you still in favor of 4 cells..?
It seems as the speed is not an issue, as the cars is going nearly as fast as before. Just a bit different where on the track. How it looks on a video is not very relevant either.
I donīt have the knowledge to give any answer if 4-cells are right or wrong from a motor/battery/speedo/brushed/brushless/bonded/sintered point of wiew. I just want the argument to be fact, and not politic/rubbish as it seems with the "new development needed" argument.
Perhaps 5-cell is the best compromice. I donīt know. What I do know, is that 6-cell is too much, and that drivers, who actually pay for there equippment from the hobby shops, have troubble with 6-cell bonded BL systems.
Thatīs why they, not me, woted for sintered as legal from Jan1-07 here in Sweden, and 5-cell as from April 1:st.
Anyone tested 4-cell and brushless? Would that perhaps have helped the situation in Japan?
11-20-2006, 04:47 AM
#230
Ok Anders,
I think you are correct. Chassis design was braught as an argument and it seems not to stand. I would not go that far as considering it a "political" move, just a mistaken perception.
At this point of time, 5 cells seems to be the best compromise. Even with brushless allowed, I believe 4 cell would still be a problem.
I think you are correct. Chassis design was braught as an argument and it seems not to stand. I would not go that far as considering it a "political" move, just a mistaken perception.
At this point of time, 5 cells seems to be the best compromise. Even with brushless allowed, I believe 4 cell would still be a problem.
11-20-2006, 05:03 AM
#231
5cells is allot better than 4cells at least!
BUT, we ran 6cells and 7t, now we will just run a 5t or 6t, maybe an 2.5t brushless when that becomes available!
Then we are back where we started with heat issues + runtime problems and new packs every run etc. etc.
I have no clue of what we should do, but changing the amount of cells used, is just biting our self in the tail as new problems occurs....
In Norway we are staying at 6cells for 2007 and Sintered rotors has always been legal here, so I guess we will find out what is best/worse during the 2007 season.
BUT, we ran 6cells and 7t, now we will just run a 5t or 6t, maybe an 2.5t brushless when that becomes available!
Then we are back where we started with heat issues + runtime problems and new packs every run etc. etc.
I have no clue of what we should do, but changing the amount of cells used, is just biting our self in the tail as new problems occurs....
In Norway we are staying at 6cells for 2007 and Sintered rotors has always been legal here, so I guess we will find out what is best/worse during the 2007 season.
11-20-2006, 05:15 AM
#232
Thank good we dont have 4 cell rool!
Yatebee shows how far behind are the "normal" racers when racing with 4 cell.
I think only Swedes and Germans didn't realize that before...
Yatebee shows how far behind are the "normal" racers when racing with 4 cell.
I think only Swedes and Germans didn't realize that before...
11-20-2006, 05:40 AM
#233
Tech Master
Originally Posted by CAi
Thank good we dont have 4 cell rool!
Yatebee shows how far behind are the "normal" racers when racing with 4 cell.
I think only Swedes and Germans didn't realize that before...
Yatebee shows how far behind are the "normal" racers when racing with 4 cell.
I think only Swedes and Germans didn't realize that before...
I have been twice at the Japaneese championships with Andreas. He came 6:th one time, so I guess we have some knowledge about whatīs going on there. We have to bring in brand new 6-cell packs as well for each run. Not to mention brand new tires for each and every run, incl. practice. Free inserts as well. A lot, to test...
The Japanees guys are extreme. They are masters of set-ups, and itīs fantastic to see them work with there cars. Itīs also fantastic to see them drive, as they do it in such a perfection when it comes to be smooth on the trottle, just placing the cars perfect. They are just very, very good, and that just bring up the smallest of details to an extreme level. Not to mention that all drivers, who like to have a shot of winning, is preparing and practicing for months, for this event.
Food is also excillent in Japan
, and the girls are the cutest, so all in all, Iīm all for, whatever they come up with 
I like to quickly also mension that Andreas have tested 5-cell and his first impression is that they are pretty much same speed, but the feel is different where 6-cell is like 2000 hp compair to 500. Heat was not the same, and belts, tires and every else did not wear as before. So it does seems as a first step to something more positive for our sport/hobby. Donīt forget the hobbyists! Without them, we can drop all subjects, as ther would be no customers
11-20-2006, 06:00 AM
#234
Tech Adept
One thing that rc racers should realise is that you are not always faster with more power. I often see drivers, even drivers that are racing on a quite high level (Euros top 30) try to use more power than they can control.
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
11-20-2006, 06:07 AM
#235
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by CAi
Thank good we dont have 4 cell rool!
Yatebee shows how far behind are the "normal" racers when racing with 4 cell.
I think only Swedes and Germans didn't realize that before...
Yatebee shows how far behind are the "normal" racers when racing with 4 cell.
I think only Swedes and Germans didn't realize that before...
I think Japan nats are on another level than you are used to.
11-20-2006, 06:32 AM
#236
Originally Posted by moonman
One thing that rc racers should realise is that you are not always faster with more power. I often see drivers, even drivers that are racing on a quite high level (Euros top 30) try to use more power than they can control.
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
11-20-2006, 07:09 AM
#237
Originally Posted by Giuseppe d.
I think that if having too much power, like in off road, is a good thing becouse the enphasis is focalized on set up and driving skill of the driver, this is -in my point of view- better than cut off from the competition all people that can't reach super team batteries and motors..
Ones again. Happy that we have 5 not 4 cell!
11-20-2006, 07:11 AM
#238
Tech Master
Originally Posted by moonman
One thing that rc racers should realise is that you are not always faster with more power. I often see drivers, even drivers that are racing on a quite high level (Euros top 30) try to use more power than they can control.
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
If people would act like you asked for, there would be no traffic accidents whats so ever. That is not the case.
I like to quote the manager of the popgroup ABBA, Stickan Andersson: People are not as stupid as you think. They are even much more stupid.
And "our" rules have to concider that fact.
11-20-2006, 07:18 AM
#239
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
.
I like to quote the manager of the popgroup ABBA, Stickan Andersson: People are not as stupid as you think. They are even much more stupid.
I like to quote the manager of the popgroup ABBA, Stickan Andersson: People are not as stupid as you think. They are even much more stupid.
Last edited by CAi; 11-20-2006 at 07:38 AM.
11-20-2006, 07:25 AM
#240
Originally Posted by moonman
One thing that rc racers should realise is that you are not always faster with more power. I often see drivers, even drivers that are racing on a quite high level (Euros top 30) try to use more power than they can control.
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
It is always the same reason if the results aren't good enough. I need a better motor and better batteries. But I don't think that will make any real change unless you drive perfect lines, and the car has really good handling. And there are only a few in the world that are capable of that the rest
REALLY NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
When you fully understands car set up and can drive perfect lines in 5 minutes then you can start thinking about more power. Try this approach from now on and you will be surprised about the results.
Another thing that I was thinking about.
Do you think TC will ever be the same as off road. There they only use as much power as they can control?
The point is to have fun and have speed and have power and have fun.
Are the cars really suffering of extra Power?
Brushless motors with sintered rotors stand the "extra" power just fine.
If looking the videos from Yatabe..its not looking fun, its looking slow.