Why cant foams be run on asphalt with electric?
11-16-2006, 05:57 PM
#31
Originally Posted by AdrianM
No you are right...2 runs is more like it.
There used to be a lot of Foam asphalt racing in NJ near Trinity. We has some guys running our car there that asked for some setups so we ran a few sets of foam to see what was up.
We found tires that were ~57-58 mm were the fastest. They had the best blend of traction and side bite for fast lap times. If you went bigger you lost corner speed. If you went smaller the car would slide and the tires would really get chewed up. The problem is that you could loose .5-1mm in a 5 min run depending on how abrasive and how much traction the track had.
The foam racing in NJ lasted about a year. The racers there decided to go back to rubber.
There used to be a lot of Foam asphalt racing in NJ near Trinity. We has some guys running our car there that asked for some setups so we ran a few sets of foam to see what was up.
We found tires that were ~57-58 mm were the fastest. They had the best blend of traction and side bite for fast lap times. If you went bigger you lost corner speed. If you went smaller the car would slide and the tires would really get chewed up. The problem is that you could loose .5-1mm in a 5 min run depending on how abrasive and how much traction the track had.
The foam racing in NJ lasted about a year. The racers there decided to go back to rubber.
I also wonder why you are you using up so much tire on 3 lbs vs a car weighs 6lb and runs an hour main on one or 2 sets?
11-16-2006, 06:11 PM
#32
I think Derek B from extreme should do a foam vs rubber shoot out to See which would perform best on an asphalt track
pack #1 to pack #15 and I'm almost sure that the foams would generate
better performance from the first pack to the last.
You could sauce the the rubber tire and true the foam.
I do agree that rubber tires looks a lot more like a real car while making laps on carpet.
pack #1 to pack #15 and I'm almost sure that the foams would generate
better performance from the first pack to the last.
You could sauce the the rubber tire and true the foam.
I do agree that rubber tires looks a lot more like a real car while making laps on carpet.
11-16-2006, 06:24 PM
#33
Originally Posted by robk
What tires did you/they run? I'll bet you ran magentas or purples...which will wear way faster than nitro tires, which are faster than carpet tires anyway. They also cost about $10 a pair.
I also wonder why you are you using up so much tire on 3 lbs vs a car weighs 6lb and runs an hour main on one or 2 sets?
I also wonder why you are you using up so much tire on 3 lbs vs a car weighs 6lb and runs an hour main on one or 2 sets?
We like the 37 Shore Nitro foams best.
The tires wore pretty much the same as on Nitro sedans despite the lighter weight.
We just had two Nitro sedan races in Kissimmee over the last two months and everyone there was burning over .5mm of tire every 5 min.
There is no doubt that the foams would be faster but as Rick said this would not be good for the hobby and I agree.
11-16-2006, 06:37 PM
#34
I'm baffled how you guys claim that foams are more expensive.
My local outdoor asphalt track has always ran foams. This year a few decided we should try rubbers. Though it was a blast, and certainly less maintainence (rollout, droop etc) it was astronomically MORE expensive. The price alone is more, I can get 3 full sets of foams for the price of 2 sets of rubbers. The rubber tires we ran (RP30) fell off after about the 3rd or 4th run. Contrary to what has been said, I think that rubber tire racing is only better if you are talking specifically about casual racing. A casual racer won't care about losing .3 because they are concentrating on running more consistent laps. I on the other hand had to spend $36 on a set of fresh rubbers every weekend if I wanted to be competitive.
My local outdoor asphalt track has always ran foams. This year a few decided we should try rubbers. Though it was a blast, and certainly less maintainence (rollout, droop etc) it was astronomically MORE expensive. The price alone is more, I can get 3 full sets of foams for the price of 2 sets of rubbers. The rubber tires we ran (RP30) fell off after about the 3rd or 4th run. Contrary to what has been said, I think that rubber tire racing is only better if you are talking specifically about casual racing. A casual racer won't care about losing .3 because they are concentrating on running more consistent laps. I on the other hand had to spend $36 on a set of fresh rubbers every weekend if I wanted to be competitive.
11-16-2006, 06:43 PM
#35
Originally Posted by JKA
I on the other hand had to spend $36 on a set of fresh rubbers every weekend if I wanted to be competitive.
Good point though Keith!
11-16-2006, 06:46 PM
#36
lol 2 funny Tom. I guess you can tell what tire type I'll be running next summer huh? lol
11-16-2006, 06:55 PM
#37
Originally Posted by AdrianM
We tried Purple, Double pinks, Orange purples, Orange Double pinks, as well as 35,37 and 40 shore Nitro foams.
We like the 37 Shore Nitro foams best.
The tires wore pretty much the same as on Nitro sedans despite the lighter weight.
We just had two Nitro sedan races in Kissimmee over the last two months and everyone there was burning over .5mm of tire every 5 min.
There is no doubt that the foams would be faster but as Rick said this would not be good for the hobby and I agree.
We like the 37 Shore Nitro foams best.
The tires wore pretty much the same as on Nitro sedans despite the lighter weight.
We just had two Nitro sedan races in Kissimmee over the last two months and everyone there was burning over .5mm of tire every 5 min.
There is no doubt that the foams would be faster but as Rick said this would not be good for the hobby and I agree.
I can only figure the asphalt in Florida is way more abrasive. I ran at 2 different tracks, one a parking lot, one a race specific track, and i had great tire wear. I had only 2 sets of tires in the summer, and raced 6-7 race days, with practice and 3 heats a day. I tq'd a small "big" race in mod with the same tires I started with.
11-16-2006, 06:56 PM
#38
Originally Posted by JKA
I'm baffled how you guys claim that foams are more expensive.
The rubber tires we ran (RP30) fell off after about the 3rd or 4th run. Contrary to what has been said, I think that rubber tire racing is only better if you are talking specifically about casual racing. A casual racer won't care about losing .3 because they are concentrating on running more consistent laps. I on the other hand had to spend $36 on a set of fresh rubbers every weekend if I wanted to be competitive.
The rubber tires we ran (RP30) fell off after about the 3rd or 4th run. Contrary to what has been said, I think that rubber tire racing is only better if you are talking specifically about casual racing. A casual racer won't care about losing .3 because they are concentrating on running more consistent laps. I on the other hand had to spend $36 on a set of fresh rubbers every weekend if I wanted to be competitive.
11-17-2006, 04:53 AM
#39
Originally Posted by AngryAsian
But I do agree with one thing - foams give crazy good grip. On a "clean" track that's been prepared, rubber is the way to go. But on our outdoor dusty tracks, foam is much faster.
Thats my findings anyway.
To all the US -racers debating about Foam tires, Here in Aus outdoor foam asphalt racing is much bigger than Rubber. We do have a number of people running rubbers, but i would say the majority, in NSW are running foams outdoor. Victoria is the bigger rubber racing scene i think would be fair to say Angryasian? maybe you can elaborate there.
The same simple rules apply to all aspects of racing, dont crash and you wont break anything. Now NOT crashing is hard to do, for most of us haha, so therefore it doesnt really matter what you run, if you crash you're going to break something or damage. In regards to chunking, if your car is set-up right and you dont clip things or crash... then you WONT chunk. On the other hand if you're taily everywhere and you slide around and clip things... yeh the tires will chunk! ... But, the same applies for rubber, if your set-up isnt perfect you will chew through a set of rubbers just as easily and render them 'practice' tires.
Just my input also!
Happy racing!
Robbie
11-17-2006, 05:17 AM
#40
foam and rubber, in australia (mainly NSW, east coast) we are having this argument...or at least we had it and due to comforming with international rules, and possibly due to small nudges from suppliers (just a guess from an uneducated aussie, don't flame aussies! 
) we are moving to rubber.
aussie racers have pritty good experience with rubber and foam. it's simple really.
for foam racing you need a truer, ($200-400 us)
general rules;
FOAM
-is quicker on clean high grip surfaces
-is quicker on high speed flowing med to large tracks
-requires the car to slide to create grip , a harder setup works better(this therefore usually means it is slower on twisty, low speed small tracks)
RUBBER
-quicker on outdoor tracks that are dusty
-quicker on small low speed tracks that have alot of quick changing corners (ie rubebr has better initial bite)
-car creates grip through roll (softer setups work better)
whats cheaper? neither! like some others said, when it gets competitive it gets pricey!
whats better overall? there is no answer!
) we are moving to rubber.aussie racers have pritty good experience with rubber and foam. it's simple really.
for foam racing you need a truer, ($200-400 us)
general rules;
FOAM
-is quicker on clean high grip surfaces
-is quicker on high speed flowing med to large tracks
-requires the car to slide to create grip , a harder setup works better(this therefore usually means it is slower on twisty, low speed small tracks)
RUBBER
-quicker on outdoor tracks that are dusty
-quicker on small low speed tracks that have alot of quick changing corners (ie rubebr has better initial bite)
-car creates grip through roll (softer setups work better)
whats cheaper? neither! like some others said, when it gets competitive it gets pricey!
whats better overall? there is no answer!
11-17-2006, 08:26 AM
#41
Originally Posted by robk
Funny, I looked in my box and the tires I ran were 37s as well
I can only figure the asphalt in Florida is way more abrasive. I ran at 2 different tracks, one a parking lot, one a race specific track, and i had great tire wear. I had only 2 sets of tires in the summer, and raced 6-7 race days, with practice and 3 heats a day. I tq'd a small "big" race in mod with the same tires I started with.
I can only figure the asphalt in Florida is way more abrasive. I ran at 2 different tracks, one a parking lot, one a race specific track, and i had great tire wear. I had only 2 sets of tires in the summer, and raced 6-7 race days, with practice and 3 heats a day. I tq'd a small "big" race in mod with the same tires I started with.
However, for the brushless and Li-po both getting more popular, tires demand is getting higher, unless you are the tire guru that knows HOW to build the right rubber tires set that will work with some 3.5 or 7700 brushless system that will run on a 1/8th scale size track..........FOAM is the easiest and cheapest answer.
I have to agree....keep the outdoor foam as a "outlaw open" class....in IL we have only 1 track left and it is a 1/8th scale size track. Running stock or even 19T is kinda waste........MOD is the only way to go, and when it is down to MOD class, just make it OPEN class...anything goes. But again, I am only talkng about local race club on every sunday club racing..........ROAR or any bigger race, should still stick with rubber tires. The last thing we need is another 3 class on EP (mod 19T stock foam class...)
When you guys running nitro foams on EP....all using the front 26mm foams? Even on the back..? Or like me, using the same spec like nitro, front 26 with rear 30mm and stand up the lower shock more to clear the 30mm rims...?
11-17-2006, 10:02 AM
#42
Now lets get it a lil hot in here...why must we have classes where we have to select one or the other, why not just run the wheels you prefer as long as the you run a certain class (19T, modified) or whatever? I like rubber, but foams perform better for me. I know that'll never happen, but it would be nice.
11-17-2006, 10:08 AM
#43
Originally Posted by Solara
Those were some good old quality outdoor racing memory....lots of run. Remember at 1 race we were all running foams except the "Thai" were running rubber and it start RAINING...? And guess who took that round....the rubber.....
However, for the brushless and Li-po both getting more popular, tires demand is getting higher, unless you are the tire guru that knows HOW to build the right rubber tires set that will work with some 3.5 or 7700 brushless system that will run on a 1/8th scale size track..........FOAM is the easiest and cheapest answer.
I have to agree....keep the outdoor foam as a "outlaw open" class....in IL we have only 1 track left and it is a 1/8th scale size track. Running stock or even 19T is kinda waste........MOD is the only way to go, and when it is down to MOD class, just make it OPEN class...anything goes. But again, I am only talkng about local race club on every sunday club racing..........ROAR or any bigger race, should still stick with rubber tires. The last thing we need is another 3 class on EP (mod 19T stock foam class...)
When you guys running nitro foams on EP....all using the front 26mm foams? Even on the back..? Or like me, using the same spec like nitro, front 26 with rear 30mm and stand up the lower shock more to clear the 30mm rims...?
However, for the brushless and Li-po both getting more popular, tires demand is getting higher, unless you are the tire guru that knows HOW to build the right rubber tires set that will work with some 3.5 or 7700 brushless system that will run on a 1/8th scale size track..........FOAM is the easiest and cheapest answer.
I have to agree....keep the outdoor foam as a "outlaw open" class....in IL we have only 1 track left and it is a 1/8th scale size track. Running stock or even 19T is kinda waste........MOD is the only way to go, and when it is down to MOD class, just make it OPEN class...anything goes. But again, I am only talkng about local race club on every sunday club racing..........ROAR or any bigger race, should still stick with rubber tires. The last thing we need is another 3 class on EP (mod 19T stock foam class...)
When you guys running nitro foams on EP....all using the front 26mm foams? Even on the back..? Or like me, using the same spec like nitro, front 26 with rear 30mm and stand up the lower shock more to clear the 30mm rims...?
On the Pro4, 24mm is what I run. In order for me to use anything larger, I would have to shave off the top of my ball ends...not with that. 24mm, the car tracks perfectly. Ran 26mm and didnt like the additional weight and added wheel surface.
11-17-2006, 10:26 AM
#44
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
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On the Pro4, 24mm is what I run. In order for me to use anything larger, I would have to shave off the top of my ball ends...not with that. 24mm, the car tracks perfectly. Ran 26mm and didnt like the additional weight and added wheel surface.
On the Pro4, 24mm is what I run. In order for me to use anything larger, I would have to shave off the top of my ball ends...not with that. 24mm, the car tracks perfectly. Ran 26mm and didnt like the additional weight and added wheel surface.
11-17-2006, 02:38 PM
#45
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
Now lets get it a lil hot in here...why must we have classes where we have to select one or the other, why not just run the wheels you prefer as long as the you run a certain class (19T, modified) or whatever? I like rubber, but foams perform better for me. I know that'll never happen, but it would be nice.
We run foam and rubber over here in the same class without problems.