4LikesXray t4'15
10-10-2014, 10:14 AM
#421
Tech Apprentice
I just used what was suggested on page 22 of the latest manual v1.1, and by doing so I understand that it will minimally increase toe-in.
Also, to note my setup is for low : medium grip asphalt. I suggest starting off with very small changes to ARS and anything for that matter. I setup my car to use the same settings I had on my T4'14. If you have a T4'14 and have had success with it's setup you should start there. The T4'14 and T4'15 aren't drastically different as I see it in terms of setup. As far as setup goes, in my view there is simply just additional quick-roll center settings to try if it helps on your track and the addition of ARS if you plan on using it.
If you have a really good feel for your car when driving it then you should know if you'll benefit from more toe-in or less-toe around the corners. With that being said I suggest everyone try it but, there may be track changing track conditions where you may not need or want your rear toe to dynamically adjust depending upon your driving style. I think that the key point for everyone is that ARS may surely help but it's all based on your driving ability and or driving style.
Example: ARS will work differently for everyone. I used to break minimalistic around turns to have a flowing turn around corners with not much speed loss, for that style I would think that you'd probably need more toe-in for sharp turns. My driving style has changed and now I brake hard but not fully almost at the very last second before a turn, it seems that I wouldn't need as much toe-in or even decreased toe if it's not tight corners. That could all be the inverse depending on your track layout, and your driving style.
Also, to note my setup is for low : medium grip asphalt. I suggest starting off with very small changes to ARS and anything for that matter. I setup my car to use the same settings I had on my T4'14. If you have a T4'14 and have had success with it's setup you should start there. The T4'14 and T4'15 aren't drastically different as I see it in terms of setup. As far as setup goes, in my view there is simply just additional quick-roll center settings to try if it helps on your track and the addition of ARS if you plan on using it.
If you have a really good feel for your car when driving it then you should know if you'll benefit from more toe-in or less-toe around the corners. With that being said I suggest everyone try it but, there may be track changing track conditions where you may not need or want your rear toe to dynamically adjust depending upon your driving style. I think that the key point for everyone is that ARS may surely help but it's all based on your driving ability and or driving style.
Example: ARS will work differently for everyone. I used to break minimalistic around turns to have a flowing turn around corners with not much speed loss, for that style I would think that you'd probably need more toe-in for sharp turns. My driving style has changed and now I brake hard but not fully almost at the very last second before a turn, it seems that I wouldn't need as much toe-in or even decreased toe if it's not tight corners. That could all be the inverse depending on your track layout, and your driving style.
10-10-2014, 11:51 AM
#422
Tech Apprentice
Lets talk Motor Mounts and Layshaft/Layshaft Holder & spur gear pulley.
1. Layshaft and Layshaft holder
2. One piece motor mount & T4'15 Chassis screw hole cut outs
First off I'm a super fan of Xray cars, period! As tempting as it is to try the innovations of other manufacturers I just can't bring myself to cheat on Xray.
If you have read any of my previous posts you may know that I'm not a fan of the current layshaft and holder design on the T4 series.
#1. Layshaft & Layshaft Holder
However, when I read the announcement of the car and that the motor mount and left layshaft holder was now a single piece I was hoping it would solve one recurring dislike I have encountered with my T4'13, and T4'14, and that is Spur Gear/layshaft slop. After building my brand new T4'15 I still have spur gear slop, meaning my spur gear moves from left to right when installed. I've observed the ball bearings and the layshaft moves freely. I have gone through countless rear belts and spur gears as a result. On my T4'13 I hand crafted from aluminum sheets a holder that I would use the unused screw hole on the side of the layshaft holder to prevent this movement and after doing so I no longer popped belts as easily nor did my spur gear chip any more. On my T4'14 I tried a layshaft from CSO and the slop stopped, maybe the bearing area was wider preventing the movement but I still wasn't happy b/c I simply don't like the layshaft design. So, I tried the Smokem Racing layshaft that also has my favorite 1mm lower design for top deck flex and this was a solid solution as the bearings are smaller having less play. My T4'15 still has this slop and I hate it. So, I swapped back and fourth last night installing between the standard '15 chassis and my '14 Smokem Racing chassis to see if it was a difference in the layshaft holder holes position and there wasn't I sill had this slop no matter what. The other problem is that my driving style, which works for me, and I'm sure there are many others, is that I brake hard right at the turn of a corner and this puts a lot of stress on the plastic 20T pulley from the belts. I strip them in no time. So, I have to buy the aluminum aftermarket pulleys offered by Spec-R and CSO. Considering this is a luxury car and nearly all other manufacturers include it should'n't an Xray touring car keep up with this standard and include and aluminum pulley! It simply makes sense!
I would more than love to see Xray change the layshaft and layshaft holder completely to something more innovative or similar to that of other manufacturers like Tamiya, Yokomo, Kyosho, and VBC who has success with theirs.
#2. One Piece Motor Mount
I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this but the T4'15 chassis has hole cut outs in the rear to support a one-piece motor mount similar to the popular offerings of other high end touring car manufacturers. This has me so excited! But, I don't see Xray ever offering product innovation updates such as an optional one-piece motor mount. I would love to be wrong. I guess until I'm proven wrong, the best we could hope for is an aftermarket piece which I'm not to keen a fan as I have resistance but will try when it make sense.
Here's my spill, a lot of us love Apple, Inc. (If your not an Apple fan I feel sorry for you.
) because they hold no bares and seek innovation. They aren't afraid to get out of their winning comfort zone and be creative. Which is why every year, year after year, there are lines flooded with people excited to buy there products. Some others may not be impressed but you have to say why do these people wait outside in the rain even to ensure they get the latest device? Even Samsung has asked this and sent camera men an analyst out to Apple events and openings to find out why.
When I first starting driving touring cars I was a fan of Tamiya because they are (still) innovative. I soon moved on to Xray because Tamiya parts availability was a nightmare, lesson learned. Xray parts availability is absolutely the best, even for older models. I once heard a saying similar in touring car setup as "nothing experimented, nothing gained". That's what I do like about Apple, and Tamiya, and even Yokomo. I do think there has to be a balance for parts manufacturing and availability. I also think Xray has the best marketing and promotion in their field like Apple does in their field.
Like I said at the beginning of this post, I'm a super fan of Xray cars! I try to buy nearly everything they release on my dollar. But, my favorite market is touring cars and I challenge Xray to be just a little more innovative. The first step in this direction was ARS. Now, lets work on changing this layshaft & layshaft holders, please!.
1. Layshaft and Layshaft holder
2. One piece motor mount & T4'15 Chassis screw hole cut outs
First off I'm a super fan of Xray cars, period! As tempting as it is to try the innovations of other manufacturers I just can't bring myself to cheat on Xray.
If you have read any of my previous posts you may know that I'm not a fan of the current layshaft and holder design on the T4 series.
#1. Layshaft & Layshaft Holder
However, when I read the announcement of the car and that the motor mount and left layshaft holder was now a single piece I was hoping it would solve one recurring dislike I have encountered with my T4'13, and T4'14, and that is Spur Gear/layshaft slop. After building my brand new T4'15 I still have spur gear slop, meaning my spur gear moves from left to right when installed. I've observed the ball bearings and the layshaft moves freely. I have gone through countless rear belts and spur gears as a result. On my T4'13 I hand crafted from aluminum sheets a holder that I would use the unused screw hole on the side of the layshaft holder to prevent this movement and after doing so I no longer popped belts as easily nor did my spur gear chip any more. On my T4'14 I tried a layshaft from CSO and the slop stopped, maybe the bearing area was wider preventing the movement but I still wasn't happy b/c I simply don't like the layshaft design. So, I tried the Smokem Racing layshaft that also has my favorite 1mm lower design for top deck flex and this was a solid solution as the bearings are smaller having less play. My T4'15 still has this slop and I hate it. So, I swapped back and fourth last night installing between the standard '15 chassis and my '14 Smokem Racing chassis to see if it was a difference in the layshaft holder holes position and there wasn't I sill had this slop no matter what. The other problem is that my driving style, which works for me, and I'm sure there are many others, is that I brake hard right at the turn of a corner and this puts a lot of stress on the plastic 20T pulley from the belts. I strip them in no time. So, I have to buy the aluminum aftermarket pulleys offered by Spec-R and CSO. Considering this is a luxury car and nearly all other manufacturers include it should'n't an Xray touring car keep up with this standard and include and aluminum pulley! It simply makes sense!
I would more than love to see Xray change the layshaft and layshaft holder completely to something more innovative or similar to that of other manufacturers like Tamiya, Yokomo, Kyosho, and VBC who has success with theirs.
#2. One Piece Motor Mount
I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this but the T4'15 chassis has hole cut outs in the rear to support a one-piece motor mount similar to the popular offerings of other high end touring car manufacturers. This has me so excited! But, I don't see Xray ever offering product innovation updates such as an optional one-piece motor mount. I would love to be wrong. I guess until I'm proven wrong, the best we could hope for is an aftermarket piece which I'm not to keen a fan as I have resistance but will try when it make sense.
Here's my spill, a lot of us love Apple, Inc. (If your not an Apple fan I feel sorry for you.
) because they hold no bares and seek innovation. They aren't afraid to get out of their winning comfort zone and be creative. Which is why every year, year after year, there are lines flooded with people excited to buy there products. Some others may not be impressed but you have to say why do these people wait outside in the rain even to ensure they get the latest device? Even Samsung has asked this and sent camera men an analyst out to Apple events and openings to find out why. When I first starting driving touring cars I was a fan of Tamiya because they are (still) innovative. I soon moved on to Xray because Tamiya parts availability was a nightmare, lesson learned. Xray parts availability is absolutely the best, even for older models. I once heard a saying similar in touring car setup as "nothing experimented, nothing gained". That's what I do like about Apple, and Tamiya, and even Yokomo. I do think there has to be a balance for parts manufacturing and availability. I also think Xray has the best marketing and promotion in their field like Apple does in their field.
Like I said at the beginning of this post, I'm a super fan of Xray cars! I try to buy nearly everything they release on my dollar. But, my favorite market is touring cars and I challenge Xray to be just a little more innovative. The first step in this direction was ARS. Now, lets work on changing this layshaft & layshaft holders, please!.
10-10-2014, 06:19 PM
#423
Tech Fanatic
Hi guys, I would like to know if the T3 sway bars and the T4 14 top deck does fit on the T4 15? I am asking because I would like to know which parts I can keep from the T3 and T4 before to buy the T4 15.
Thank you.
Thank you.
10-10-2014, 09:33 PM
#424
Tech Adept
Rollbars are all new on the 2015
10-10-2014, 11:58 PM
#425
Typical greenhorn fanboy rant. I would hazard a guess you're a hipster too (like the rest of Apple fandom). All you need is a white 60's single speed bycicle if you don't have one.
1. You need to bring up your maintenance skills to keep the car reliable.
2. If you strip pulleys is not because the design is bad, is because you don't adjust the tension properly on your belts (not too tight, not too loose). If I had the wobble problem and thought it was serious I would try to shim the bearings. More often than not, that is where the wobble you describe comes from. The aluminium pulleys are not going to solve your problems. As most experienced racers know, Aluminum wears down and you're up for another pulley soon. Correctly adjusted, plastic lasts forever (good plastics, it's true; but Xray has some of the best - I have never seen one wear down or strip as you say). I bet you're not even running mod, either.
3. You're a member of a very lonely club if you think Tamiya is innovative. They're about as innovative as a Toyota Corolla.
4. You need to race more and spend less time on forums.
5. Stop being a fan of companies, try to be a fan of your own growth. (not of yourself, you've got that covered by being a hipster).
Oh, an by the way, Samsung figured it out. It turns out hipsters queue up for Apple iCrap releases because they don't have a life.
1. You need to bring up your maintenance skills to keep the car reliable.
2. If you strip pulleys is not because the design is bad, is because you don't adjust the tension properly on your belts (not too tight, not too loose). If I had the wobble problem and thought it was serious I would try to shim the bearings. More often than not, that is where the wobble you describe comes from. The aluminium pulleys are not going to solve your problems. As most experienced racers know, Aluminum wears down and you're up for another pulley soon. Correctly adjusted, plastic lasts forever (good plastics, it's true; but Xray has some of the best - I have never seen one wear down or strip as you say). I bet you're not even running mod, either.
3. You're a member of a very lonely club if you think Tamiya is innovative. They're about as innovative as a Toyota Corolla.
4. You need to race more and spend less time on forums.
5. Stop being a fan of companies, try to be a fan of your own growth. (not of yourself, you've got that covered by being a hipster).
Oh, an by the way, Samsung figured it out. It turns out hipsters queue up for Apple iCrap releases because they don't have a life.
10-11-2014, 12:36 AM
#427
Anywhere you put your wallet, or empty your bank account, then Apple touch you up the ass with a 2x4 by making them break unless you encase them in a giant shock proof case doubling the mass and size... 
And yes alloy pulleys suck, they chew belts and wear out faster than plastics, slop in the layshaft?, never even come close to noticing that, stock Xray rear belts are not all that durable though, throw on a Yoko rear belt and they last forever.
Easy answer for 'slop' if you think it is more slop than just a bit of play, shim it out, it's why everyone sells shims, nothing is perfect out of the box.
And yes alloy pulleys suck, they chew belts and wear out faster than plastics, slop in the layshaft?, never even come close to noticing that, stock Xray rear belts are not all that durable though, throw on a Yoko rear belt and they last forever.
Easy answer for 'slop' if you think it is more slop than just a bit of play, shim it out, it's why everyone sells shims, nothing is perfect out of the box.
10-11-2014, 03:28 AM
#428
Ha. Never had one, sorry.
Still carry around one of those bricks that make calls, you know, as in a phone.
They make good computers though.
Xray belts are Bando just like Yokomo's so they should be pretty much the same quality. Never managed to break one apart from today when I broke a 15 year old belt on my YR4.
Back to bearing play, I would say Xray has the best bearings in the kits, almost play free. Yokomo's bearings are very close too, and I think they sell a kit which is even better with ceramic balls and those have no noticeable play. Bit pricey though.
But I can fraternise here. I like my drivetrain play free and in the past I used to order Kanzen bearings form France, good quality stuff but expensive like enriched Uranium. Used that for the drivetrain (not wheels) and they last long enough to make it worthwhile.
Still carry around one of those bricks that make calls, you know, as in a phone.
They make good computers though.
Xray belts are Bando just like Yokomo's so they should be pretty much the same quality. Never managed to break one apart from today when I broke a 15 year old belt on my YR4.
Back to bearing play, I would say Xray has the best bearings in the kits, almost play free. Yokomo's bearings are very close too, and I think they sell a kit which is even better with ceramic balls and those have no noticeable play. Bit pricey though.
But I can fraternise here. I like my drivetrain play free and in the past I used to order Kanzen bearings form France, good quality stuff but expensive like enriched Uranium. Used that for the drivetrain (not wheels) and they last long enough to make it worthwhile.
10-11-2014, 05:37 AM
#429
Bando make about a million different grades of belt, not all are equal.
Bearings are 'the' most overrated bit of RC equipment made, about the only difference between bearings, is if it spins free or not, and if it's clean or not, ceramic bearings don't make you faster, just poorer.
Best thing to do with bearings, when they get dirty/gritty, throw them in a bin and fit new ones, the cheap ones these days spin as true as the expensive ones, we don't stress them enough in RC to make any gains by using anything special.
Bearings are 'the' most overrated bit of RC equipment made, about the only difference between bearings, is if it spins free or not, and if it's clean or not, ceramic bearings don't make you faster, just poorer.
Best thing to do with bearings, when they get dirty/gritty, throw them in a bin and fit new ones, the cheap ones these days spin as true as the expensive ones, we don't stress them enough in RC to make any gains by using anything special.
10-11-2014, 06:16 AM
#430
Tech Apprentice
Bearings are 'the' most overrated bit of RC equipment made, ceramic bearings don't make you faster, just poorer.
Best thing to do with bearings, when they get dirty/gritty, throw them in a bin and fit new ones, the cheap ones these days spin as true as the expensive ones, we don't stress them enough in RC to make any gains by using anything special.
Best thing to do with bearings, when they get dirty/gritty, throw them in a bin and fit new ones, the cheap ones these days spin as true as the expensive ones, we don't stress them enough in RC to make any gains by using anything special.
10-11-2014, 08:33 AM
#431
Why not run the avid bearing kits?
10-11-2014, 08:45 AM
#432
10-11-2014, 10:01 AM
#433
Tech Apprentice
Typical greenhorn fanboy rant. I would hazard a guess you're a hipster too (like the rest of Apple fandom). All you need is a white 60's single speed bycicle if you don't have one.
1. You need to bring up your maintenance skills to keep the car reliable.
2. If you strip pulleys is not because the design is bad, is because you don't adjust the tension properly on your belts (not too tight, not too loose). If I had the wobble problem and thought it was serious I would try to shim the bearings. More often than not, that is where the wobble you describe comes from. The aluminium pulleys are not going to solve your problems. As most experienced racers know, Aluminum wears down and you're up for another pulley soon. Correctly adjusted, plastic lasts forever (good plastics, it's true; but Xray has some of the best - I have never seen one wear down or strip as you say). I bet you're not even running mod, either.
3. You're a member of a very lonely club if you think Tamiya is innovative. They're about as innovative as a Toyota Corolla.
4. You need to race more and spend less time on forums.
5. Stop being a fan of companies, try to be a fan of your own growth. (not of yourself, you've got that covered by being a hipster).
Oh, an by the way, Samsung figured it out. It turns out hipsters queue up for Apple iCrap releases because they don't have a life.
1. You need to bring up your maintenance skills to keep the car reliable.
2. If you strip pulleys is not because the design is bad, is because you don't adjust the tension properly on your belts (not too tight, not too loose). If I had the wobble problem and thought it was serious I would try to shim the bearings. More often than not, that is where the wobble you describe comes from. The aluminium pulleys are not going to solve your problems. As most experienced racers know, Aluminum wears down and you're up for another pulley soon. Correctly adjusted, plastic lasts forever (good plastics, it's true; but Xray has some of the best - I have never seen one wear down or strip as you say). I bet you're not even running mod, either.
3. You're a member of a very lonely club if you think Tamiya is innovative. They're about as innovative as a Toyota Corolla.
4. You need to race more and spend less time on forums.
5. Stop being a fan of companies, try to be a fan of your own growth. (not of yourself, you've got that covered by being a hipster).
Oh, an by the way, Samsung figured it out. It turns out hipsters queue up for Apple iCrap releases because they don't have a life.
LOL. ...another dude running his flaps, I set the trap just to see YOU react!
Womp, womp, womp!
I agree that no car is perfect, which is why they make changes and improvements each year. Even Xray finds areas of improvement over the previous years model. I'm sure they don't make changes just to say Me Too! You must think that each year the team drivers never suggest improvement areas on the current model years car. Every year most manufacturers say hey we've made these changes or improvements to make the car better than the previous year as we've found these problems and this is why you should buy the new one. Is it that I'm not a team driver and have no right to suggest areas of improvement, and therefore shouldn't be heard or considered? Novice!
1. A fresh out of the box build and there's spur slop? The point of making changes every year is to make improvements, and set the bar in key areas. The Yokomo BD7 is a great example. I think we "might" all agree that Volker, Matsukura, and Hara are ahead of the pack in driving skills no matter what car they might have. But, the BD7 is leading everybody in nearly all races - oh, and in Mod. But, yet each year the BD7 gets changes or improvements. Else, they may as well just release the same car year after year until somebody beats them.
2. *It's clear you don't have good reading comprehension. I said I had no more problems AFTER changing out parts so it's not how much tension I'm applying. The wear down on your pulley has more to do with your driving style. There isn't so much wrong with how one drives. What ever works for you. All of the top drivers have different driving styles that causes more stress on different areas of the car. A prime example is Matsukura stated his driving style wears down his tires a lot. Yet, he's winning. Is there something so wrong with his driving style wearing down tires when he's winning at the end of 5min? Common sense should tell you not to apply too much or too less tension. Then again, your response shows that you don't have a whole lot of that (Common sense)!
3. Let me clear this up for you. I think Tamiya is an innovative company b/c of the variation of R/C cars they have and they are different but similar for cross-parts compatibility. In regards to the competition Touring Cars (TRF41x), no I don't see them as being very innovative b/c it seems they are copying. Awesomatics would be classified in my opinion as the *most innovative, and such there are levels to being innovative.
4. I'm not on the forums much, check your facts.
5. Well you got me there. What can I say? I'm a fan of pure innovating thinking! Innovation is the primary reason why Apple is the richest "company" in the world. It's always a funny and interesting conversation about Apple and those who want to hate them. Here's another facts check. All notable mobile phones for sell from up to 2007 were keypad or Palm like devices. After the iPhones release ,and now theres this such thing as a capacitive touch screen, every device release following has attempted to be this term we're all familiar with, "The iPhone Killer!", and same in the iPad tablet space. Lol
My goal in the initial post was to be inspiring by pointing out an area in which I think can be improved. Inspiration develops attention, attention causes all of us to focus on the next release. Xray wants us to buy their products to grow their business, ultimately. For the consumer it's all fun. For them it's fun and business. If you read Martin Hudy's column posts for the announce he stated that in discussion with Francesco they found tweak in the motor mount. The motor mount bulkheads were already in production and so he stopped production to fix and build a new motor mount. This updated parts change seemingly came from one conversation to note which inspired Martin to refocus and be innovative in that area.
My posts are never to bash. As I said, I'm a pure Xray fan. Why? I like the quality they put into making their cars. The new anti-roll bar design, roll-centers, and suspension holders are all innovative and work really well. To me Xray is to R/C, what Apple is to mobile hardware. Xray inspires others to make their cars very similar more than any other manufacturer. Don't be a follower, be a leader. A follower keeps his eyes closed and mouth shut, and likely set in the back of the class in school. A leader speaks up, brings forth idea's, and likely set in the front of the class and or participated. Not try to shut down every thought one of the smart students presented. If it sounds like you then maybe YOU to should be inspired!
Last edited by rafyel; 10-11-2014 at 01:29 PM.
