TUNED PIPES THEORY
10-27-2010, 09:28 AM
#1
TUNED PIPES THEORY
I need a lil help on this tuned pipe thing. I have heard a lot of things, but it mostly came down to what on what.
How does this work?
3 port/ bottom end pipe
7 port/ top end pipe
Or is the other way around. And does anyone have a pipe comparison chart, one that can tell which pipes are close to in comparison. And how many pipes do you carry in your bag, one for each range low-mid-high, depending on track size? I dont want to spend money when I dont need to, save some money and buy more tires
.
Any help would be great.
How does this work?
3 port/ bottom end pipe
7 port/ top end pipe
Or is the other way around. And does anyone have a pipe comparison chart, one that can tell which pipes are close to in comparison. And how many pipes do you carry in your bag, one for each range low-mid-high, depending on track size? I dont want to spend money when I dont need to, save some money and buy more tires
. Any help would be great.
10-27-2010, 09:35 AM
#2
I need a lil help on this tuned pipe thing. I have heard a lot of things, but it mostly came down to what on what.
How does this work?
3 port/ bottom end pipe
7 port/ top end pipe
Or is the other way around. And does anyone have a pipe comparison chart, one that can tell which pipes are close to in comparison. And how many pipes do you carry in your bag, one for each range low-mid-high, depending on track size? I dont want to spend money when I dont need to, save some money and buy more tires.
Any help would be great.
How does this work?
3 port/ bottom end pipe
7 port/ top end pipe
Or is the other way around. And does anyone have a pipe comparison chart, one that can tell which pipes are close to in comparison. And how many pipes do you carry in your bag, one for each range low-mid-high, depending on track size? I dont want to spend money when I dont need to, save some money and buy more tires
. Any help would be great.
10-27-2010, 09:44 AM
#3
Again, the number of ports really has no effect on the powerband (low/mid/high) of the engine it-self. The port timing does (location of the ports vertically in the sleeve ).
For example, the Speed is only a 4 Port motor, but has PLENTY of top end.
Alpha has 2 different 7 port engines, one tuned for top end (more duration) and one for low/mid (less duration).
So to say a certain pipe should be used on a engine with a certain number of ports is kind of vague.
Best place to start is to run the pipe that is recomended, or at least talk to people (who know what they are doing) about what to use on a particular engine.
For example, the Speed is only a 4 Port motor, but has PLENTY of top end.
Alpha has 2 different 7 port engines, one tuned for top end (more duration) and one for low/mid (less duration).
So to say a certain pipe should be used on a engine with a certain number of ports is kind of vague.
Best place to start is to run the pipe that is recomended, or at least talk to people (who know what they are doing) about what to use on a particular engine.
10-27-2010, 10:48 AM
#4
Again, the number of ports really has no effect on the powerband (low/mid/high) of the engine it-self. The port timing does (location of the ports vertically in the sleeve ).
For example, the Speed is only a 4 Port motor, but has PLENTY of top end.
Alpha has 2 different 7 port engines, one tuned for top end (more duration) and one for low/mid (less duration).
So to say a certain pipe should be used on a engine with a certain number of ports is kind of vague.
Best place to start is to run the pipe that is recomended, or at least talk to people (who know what they are doing) about what to use on a particular engine.
For example, the Speed is only a 4 Port motor, but has PLENTY of top end.
Alpha has 2 different 7 port engines, one tuned for top end (more duration) and one for low/mid (less duration).
So to say a certain pipe should be used on a engine with a certain number of ports is kind of vague.
Best place to start is to run the pipe that is recomended, or at least talk to people (who know what they are doing) about what to use on a particular engine.
10-27-2010, 10:55 AM
#5
Its pretty simple really. Tuned pipes have different characteristics and you can use them however you think will work best for you. In most cases if you have a motor with really good bottom end you go for a pipe that gives better top end for a broader powerband or vice versa. Most of the time once you find a good combo you just stick with it rather than switching pipes frequently as you need to retune with a pipe change so there is no need for you to carry a bunch of pipes around.
10-27-2010, 11:04 AM
#6
It also depends on what you are looking for out of the engine you are trying to tune.
There is no "best" pipe for any engine, it's like assuming there is a tire out there that works as good on a loam rough track as it does on a blue groove track.
The pipe itself is just a determined length. Depending on the engine it is going on, it could add low end power to one engine, and top end power to another. It is the relationship of the port timing to the length of the end of the expansion chamber.
You can use different length headers, or spacers between the header and pipe to change the powerband also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_chamber
There is no "best" pipe for any engine, it's like assuming there is a tire out there that works as good on a loam rough track as it does on a blue groove track.
The pipe itself is just a determined length. Depending on the engine it is going on, it could add low end power to one engine, and top end power to another. It is the relationship of the port timing to the length of the end of the expansion chamber.
You can use different length headers, or spacers between the header and pipe to change the powerband also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_chamber
10-27-2010, 11:14 AM
#7
It also depends on what you are looking for out of the engine you are trying to tune.
There is no "best" pipe for any engine, it's like assuming there is a tire out there that works as good on a loam rough track as it does on a blue groove track.
The pipe itself is just a determined length. Depending on the engine it is going on, it could add low end power to one engine, and top end power to another. It is the relationship of the port timing to the length of the end of the expansion chamber.
You can use different length headers, or spacers between the header and pipe to change the powerband also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_chamber
There is no "best" pipe for any engine, it's like assuming there is a tire out there that works as good on a loam rough track as it does on a blue groove track.
The pipe itself is just a determined length. Depending on the engine it is going on, it could add low end power to one engine, and top end power to another. It is the relationship of the port timing to the length of the end of the expansion chamber.
You can use different length headers, or spacers between the header and pipe to change the powerband also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_chamber
thanks for info
10-27-2010, 11:31 AM
#8
I have built allot of race snowmobile engines, have even built pipes for sleds (there are formulas you can use to design the angles, volume, and length).
Small incremental changes of the length could net some big changes on the dyno, as litte as a 1/4" (on a pipe that is 3+ feet long) could make the pipe "peakier" (high end) or broader (low end).
I wish when you saw the specs on a engine, that they would publish what pipes and fuels they were using in their stated power and RPM numbers.
There are some pipes out there that are decent on just about any engine and will give decent, broad, useable power (ie AE 2035, JP-3, 2060, 2053, O'donnell R2) but usually in order to outperform those pipes, you need to find the "perfect" pipe for said engine in order to come up with a better setup, and it is usually only marginal power-wise (though usually decent gains in mileage).
I guess the point I am trying to make is that unless you are at a level in which you need the last 5% of the power your engine can make, focus on a good "all around" pipe setup.
I have run the same AE 2035 on a Mugen JX-21, Orion 7-Port, Reedy .21, O'donnell SS.21 and I have found pipes that will make more peak high-end power, but it is not like you are going to double it.
On the Reedy, their are 2 pipes that AE makes, the 2035(mid range) and the 2039 (high end). You literally need a track with a 75+ foot or longer strait away to see the difference in the two pipes, and when running the 2039 you have a engine that is harder to tune, cause when it is a little bit off, it feels like it is REALLY off.
Small incremental changes of the length could net some big changes on the dyno, as litte as a 1/4" (on a pipe that is 3+ feet long) could make the pipe "peakier" (high end) or broader (low end).
I wish when you saw the specs on a engine, that they would publish what pipes and fuels they were using in their stated power and RPM numbers.
There are some pipes out there that are decent on just about any engine and will give decent, broad, useable power (ie AE 2035, JP-3, 2060, 2053, O'donnell R2) but usually in order to outperform those pipes, you need to find the "perfect" pipe for said engine in order to come up with a better setup, and it is usually only marginal power-wise (though usually decent gains in mileage).
I guess the point I am trying to make is that unless you are at a level in which you need the last 5% of the power your engine can make, focus on a good "all around" pipe setup.
I have run the same AE 2035 on a Mugen JX-21, Orion 7-Port, Reedy .21, O'donnell SS.21 and I have found pipes that will make more peak high-end power, but it is not like you are going to double it.
On the Reedy, their are 2 pipes that AE makes, the 2035(mid range) and the 2039 (high end). You literally need a track with a 75+ foot or longer strait away to see the difference in the two pipes, and when running the 2039 you have a engine that is harder to tune, cause when it is a little bit off, it feels like it is REALLY off.
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