How to set suspension travel?
06-17-2009, 06:56 PM
#1
How to set suspension travel?
Ok, how do the experts adjust their suspension travel?
Should it be like this... When you lift the the front or rear end, there is
small up-travel/distance before the tires lift. Springs are almost at a
relaxed state. What are the pros and cons of this set up? Will be
beneficial to very loose or dusty tracks?
Or when you lift the front or rear, the tires go up as well. Which means
the springs are more compressed thus wont allow any down-travel when
placed on a surface. Any pros and cons or benefits? Hi-bite track advantage?
Should you let the springs do its work (specially the soft springs) and not
compress it?
Should it be like this... When you lift the the front or rear end, there is
small up-travel/distance before the tires lift. Springs are almost at a
relaxed state. What are the pros and cons of this set up? Will be
beneficial to very loose or dusty tracks?
Or when you lift the front or rear, the tires go up as well. Which means
the springs are more compressed thus wont allow any down-travel when
placed on a surface. Any pros and cons or benefits? Hi-bite track advantage?
Should you let the springs do its work (specially the soft springs) and not
compress it?
06-17-2009, 08:09 PM
#2
Go back to your original post Cheech.
Its talked to death about in there.. Its also known as droop
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ed-shocks.html
Its talked to death about in there.. Its also known as droop
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ed-shocks.html
06-17-2009, 10:20 PM
#4
DROOP!
I was told rule of thumb for droop is the higher the traction at a given track the less droop is needed the lower the traction on any track the more droop should be used. As far as springs are concerned I think the springs should have no pre-load ie with the tires off the ground the springs should spin freely. I measure droop from the top of the axle to the bottom of the chassis, of coarse this is measured with the tires off the car! This to me makes the adjustment more consistant. Lastly droop controls traction conditions from front to rear. where sway bars affect traction from left to right. I also call droop the transfer of weight from front to back or coming into a corner vesus coming out of a corner and what the car is doing!
I hope this helps!
I hope this helps!
06-17-2009, 10:51 PM
#5
Hey thanks for input. It's a big help.
So you're measuring your droop without droop guage? I think your way
of droop measurements are not applicable to kits with factory induced
axle play like TA05s or TC5. I shake them new axles and it has some play.
It's not 100% snugged to the bearing. I maybe wrong but Ill still use
the droop guage and double check by using your method.
"the higher the traction at a given track the less droop is needed the lower
the traction on any track the more droop should be used"
What does less/more droop mean? Less = More down travel of the arm?
Im pretty confused. If I put more droop, the down travel will be less?
I run on loose surface (dusty). So I have to set it with more suspension
down travel?
"As far as springs are concerned I think the springs should have no
pre-load ie with the tires off the ground the springs should spin freely"
I tried this set up, spring spins freely when off the ground but when I
laid it down, I lost the ride height that I wanted (I use AE silver springs
at the rear for my TC5R). Now I have to pre-load it to reclaim my
ride height. But the springs dont freely spin anymore.
So you're measuring your droop without droop guage? I think your way
of droop measurements are not applicable to kits with factory induced
axle play like TA05s or TC5. I shake them new axles and it has some play.
It's not 100% snugged to the bearing. I maybe wrong but Ill still use
the droop guage and double check by using your method.
"the higher the traction at a given track the less droop is needed the lower
the traction on any track the more droop should be used"
What does less/more droop mean? Less = More down travel of the arm?
Im pretty confused. If I put more droop, the down travel will be less?
I run on loose surface (dusty). So I have to set it with more suspension
down travel?
"As far as springs are concerned I think the springs should have no
pre-load ie with the tires off the ground the springs should spin freely"
I tried this set up, spring spins freely when off the ground but when I
laid it down, I lost the ride height that I wanted (I use AE silver springs
at the rear for my TC5R). Now I have to pre-load it to reclaim my
ride height. But the springs dont freely spin anymore.
06-18-2009, 12:22 AM
#6
The droop setting has a lot to do with traction which has a lot to do with tire and insert as well as air gap, not only surface.
There are no set rules here.
Just one general principle. The more grip you have, the less you need droop.
That being said, most people like a "point and shoot" car (handling very quick and twitchy, flat through the corners) others (like me) like a "soft" car that leans into the corner. The latter may seem slower, but that's not always the case. While a stiff car will have to use a lot of brake and acceleration, a softer car will flow nicer through the corners and be more forgiving. A track where the winner is decided by a tenth of a second or less may discourage people to use a less forgiving setup and reward a softer car that doesn't suffer too much in the event of an error or a crash. Other than that, it's down to preference and style.
At my track (about 12 second lap, twisty, carpet, rubber tires, low traction), the "softer" cars are faster in any class. A stiff car is always on the verge of drifting and some do it quite often. You can use this to your advantage to some extent (to spin the back end around) but if you don't hit the throttle at the right moment (for whatever reason), you lose time and it adds up. Softer cars on the other hand can come at full speed and just coast nicely with no brake at all in the corner and back on the throttle before the apex, whereas the stiff cars have to go past the apex before they can gun it. A lot of times I pass people on the inside because I can choose much more accurately my line and can go a lot tighter into the corner than they can and I am out of the corner sooner, flat out. In other words they approach the corner fast and get out slower, I come in slower and get out a lot quicker.
All this is possible because I run a lot of ride height (about 7mm as opposed to 5.5 the minimum allowed), and a lot of droop (about 3mm) with soft springs and shocks. This basically allows my car to keep traction even in tripod mode (one wheel off the ground) so I can go really fast around and especially out of corners. Tires are very good too (MM sweeps 24), the car is perfectly balanced left to right and has a rear weight bias but only because I have the back lower than the front by a fraction (perhaps 0.5mm). Otherwise, the car is perfectly balanced 50-50 front to rear.
Of course, this may not work elsewhere or for another driver.
My suggestion is that you look around, talk to people, read as much as you can, but develop your own style and setup. That's what I always do anyway.
There are no set rules here.
Just one general principle. The more grip you have, the less you need droop.
That being said, most people like a "point and shoot" car (handling very quick and twitchy, flat through the corners) others (like me) like a "soft" car that leans into the corner. The latter may seem slower, but that's not always the case. While a stiff car will have to use a lot of brake and acceleration, a softer car will flow nicer through the corners and be more forgiving. A track where the winner is decided by a tenth of a second or less may discourage people to use a less forgiving setup and reward a softer car that doesn't suffer too much in the event of an error or a crash. Other than that, it's down to preference and style.
At my track (about 12 second lap, twisty, carpet, rubber tires, low traction), the "softer" cars are faster in any class. A stiff car is always on the verge of drifting and some do it quite often. You can use this to your advantage to some extent (to spin the back end around) but if you don't hit the throttle at the right moment (for whatever reason), you lose time and it adds up. Softer cars on the other hand can come at full speed and just coast nicely with no brake at all in the corner and back on the throttle before the apex, whereas the stiff cars have to go past the apex before they can gun it. A lot of times I pass people on the inside because I can choose much more accurately my line and can go a lot tighter into the corner than they can and I am out of the corner sooner, flat out. In other words they approach the corner fast and get out slower, I come in slower and get out a lot quicker.
All this is possible because I run a lot of ride height (about 7mm as opposed to 5.5 the minimum allowed), and a lot of droop (about 3mm) with soft springs and shocks. This basically allows my car to keep traction even in tripod mode (one wheel off the ground) so I can go really fast around and especially out of corners. Tires are very good too (MM sweeps 24), the car is perfectly balanced left to right and has a rear weight bias but only because I have the back lower than the front by a fraction (perhaps 0.5mm). Otherwise, the car is perfectly balanced 50-50 front to rear.
Of course, this may not work elsewhere or for another driver.
My suggestion is that you look around, talk to people, read as much as you can, but develop your own style and setup. That's what I always do anyway.
Last edited by niznai; 06-18-2009 at 12:38 AM.
06-18-2009, 12:41 AM
#7
Yes Niznai, I got your point. I too have driven a "rubber" car, my TA05R.
The soft suspension package plus the stock flexible chassis makes driving
smooth and has more mechanical grip. My TC5R on stock set up feels like
a robot, I didnt put any o-rings for added flex, less mech grip and I cant
drive it flat out. But now I made some adjustments with even softer
suspension package. It's been raining here so I havent tried it out.
The soft suspension package plus the stock flexible chassis makes driving
smooth and has more mechanical grip. My TC5R on stock set up feels like
a robot, I didnt put any o-rings for added flex, less mech grip and I cant
drive it flat out. But now I made some adjustments with even softer
suspension package. It's been raining here so I havent tried it out.
06-18-2009, 01:29 AM
#8
My impression of the TC5 car (based on what I see at our track and one of my friends who's very experienced and one of the best drivers I have seen) is that it is a difficult car to tune. Once you do it, it's just as fast as anything else. The trick is to know how, and I can't help you there. I know however that my friend had to stiffen the front suspension a lot before he got it to handle properly, but that's about it.
Get some good tires/inserts too, that's the first point of call. Without having a good tire, you're going to chase a lot of ghosts. Talk to the guys at your track for this and take it from there.
Get some good tires/inserts too, that's the first point of call. Without having a good tire, you're going to chase a lot of ghosts. Talk to the guys at your track for this and take it from there.
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