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08-10-2010 | 06:08 AM
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
From: Dumper's Speed Shop
I get 3 runs out of a 180mah lipo receiver pack on my BD. So apparently not only is my 180mah pack powering my car, but the BD is charging it as I run.
And for a guy like me that does not own a laptop, a tekin will cost me as much as 2 BD's.
Tekin+Hotwire+laptop = 2 Advanced speed controls.
It is a year later and the same conversation is still going on.
And for a guy like me that does not own a laptop, a tekin will cost me as much as 2 BD's.
Tekin+Hotwire+laptop = 2 Advanced speed controls.
It is a year later and the same conversation is still going on.
08-10-2010 | 06:20 AM
Regarding my post about the servo in the Yokomo R12, Ive narrowed it down to the JR DS line of servos, but which one is it ? help would be appreciated.
I have a feeling its the DS 3517MG but it only has 51oz at 6v, is that enuff ? ive been running a futaba 9650 in the HB12 and its like 158oz at 6v
edit: rethink.. maybe its the DS3421 as thats 75oz unit..
I have a feeling its the DS 3517MG but it only has 51oz at 6v, is that enuff ? ive been running a futaba 9650 in the HB12 and its like 158oz at 6v
edit: rethink.. maybe its the DS3421 as thats 75oz unit..
the JR Z3650 is the car version of the 3517. they have identical specs. if you can get the 3650 for the same price it might be the better choice. the only difference between them is the sticker color and the 3650 has a shorter lead,
a couple years ago, the 3650 sold for $10-20 less than the 3517
08-10-2010 | 08:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,310
From: Sydney, Australia
Here is some testing that i did last year with boosters and the Tekin.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/6357275-post303.html
One day when i get my hands on a fried one i will looking into what is sucking all the power.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/6357275-post303.html
One day when i get my hands on a fried one i will looking into what is sucking all the power.
I think thats pretty clear the receiver battery must only supply power to the radio receiver.
By plugging it into the ESC you are supply power to the esc which is then supplying power to the receiver. There is no way for a scruitneer to be able to tell what the esc is doing with the power.
In my opinion, if it were legal to do that regulatory bodies would need to get sample escs, reverse engineer them and then verify they are legal and put them on a list. Otherwise anyone could rock up with their own esc and you would never know what is happening.
As for the tekin that is something i have said around the tracks. I know functionality is different when the esc is off. It doesnt have a voltage cut off when it is off (which to me would theoretically mean that if the esc is off it is not legal, but then again voltage cut offs dont seem to do a lot in 12th scale). Tekin would have to comment on what other functionality does, doesnt or kind of works when the esc is off.
By plugging it into the ESC you are supply power to the esc which is then supplying power to the receiver. There is no way for a scruitneer to be able to tell what the esc is doing with the power.
In my opinion, if it were legal to do that regulatory bodies would need to get sample escs, reverse engineer them and then verify they are legal and put them on a list. Otherwise anyone could rock up with their own esc and you would never know what is happening.
As for the tekin that is something i have said around the tracks. I know functionality is different when the esc is off. It doesnt have a voltage cut off when it is off (which to me would theoretically mean that if the esc is off it is not legal, but then again voltage cut offs dont seem to do a lot in 12th scale). Tekin would have to comment on what other functionality does, doesnt or kind of works when the esc is off.
mikecatts: I generally agree... if run time is not a problem for you then get a booster system to go with your ESC choice or get the SXX SS or the new Hobbywing with built in booster. If a RX pack is a must the BD makes life easy.
08-10-2010 | 09:32 AM
A receiver battery pack must only supply power to radio receivers
for its operation and the control only of addition equipment listed: speed controls, servos and transponders for their operation.
Even if you read it thus, it still doesnt say the battery pack can supply power to the esc:
A receiver battery pack must only supply power to radio receivers for its operation
and the control only of addition equipment listed: speed controls, servos and transponders for their operation.
Like i said otherwise how is it possible to scruitineer what the receiver pack is doing when its plugged into the esc.
With regards to the tekin, to me it seems certain parts of the esc are not fully functional and thus not powered when the esc is off. Hence the fact that the VC does not operate. I suspect that is one of the reasons why there is an extra current draw.
But the draw is quite significantly larger, i dont know what it is doing. But the tekin does seem to pull massive load of a 1s pack so it is possible the esc is browning out (something which to me is shown by the fact that a novak smartboost cant maintain voltage with the tekin to operate) and needing to draw more power from the receiver pack to keep it going at full strength.
Last edited by mangoman; 08-10-2010 at 09:46 AM.
08-10-2010 | 09:49 AM
Those tests were with a BOOSTER, not a receiver pack. A booster is boosting the voltage and to do that, it has to draw more current so I am not surprised to see the higher amp draws. With the switch off, it is not supplying the esc but turn the switch on and not only does it have to supply the esc with power but it has to boost the voltage, effectively doubling the current it draws.
I run with the switch on with a receiver pack and have never seen more than 80mah in one 8 minute run.
I run with the switch on with a receiver pack and have never seen more than 80mah in one 8 minute run.
08-10-2010 | 10:48 AM
Tech Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,191
From: Hawaii, USA
Tekin RS - $160
Hotwire - $38
Netbook - $220 (from Best Buy)
Total: $418
Black Diamond (1s): $349
So the price difference isn't anywhere near 2 Black Diamonds...not only that the RS at that will also run 2s where that version of the Black Diamond will not. So a better comparison would be with the 2s Black Diamond at $400. Plus many people already have a laptop already that they can use. If not they will have a desktop at home they can use. You don't have to have a laptop and haul it around with you. It is nice to have but not necessary. Fortunately I do but I find that once I get the setup where I want I stop bringing the laptop and only to minor changes at home.
08-10-2010 | 11:56 AM
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
From: Dumper's Speed Shop
Actually it does run 2s lipo. Quite well as a matter of fact.
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...rticle&sid=121
Also I tested 2s as hot as 10.5 with that speed control. It does not get warm at all. I pulled 10-15 feet on the straight over the "laptoppers". I ended up running back to back heats with the same motor and speed control (had 5 minutes to change battery and tires), the motor came off 125, speed control, had no heat. It was 95 degrees. I saw alot of the "laptoppers" letting out magic smoke out of both motors and speed controls trying to keep up.
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...rticle&sid=121
Also I tested 2s as hot as 10.5 with that speed control. It does not get warm at all. I pulled 10-15 feet on the straight over the "laptoppers". I ended up running back to back heats with the same motor and speed control (had 5 minutes to change battery and tires), the motor came off 125, speed control, had no heat. It was 95 degrees. I saw alot of the "laptoppers" letting out magic smoke out of both motors and speed controls trying to keep up.
08-10-2010 | 12:06 PM
Not quite (From Stormer Hobbies prices):
Tekin RS - $160
Hotwire - $38
Netbook - $220 (from Best Buy)
Total: $418
Black Diamond (1s): $349
So the price difference isn't anywhere near 2 Black Diamonds...not only that the RS at that will also run 2s where that version of the Black Diamond will not. So a better comparison would be with the 2s Black Diamond at $400. Plus many people already have a laptop already that they can use. If not they will have a desktop at home they can use. You don't have to have a laptop and haul it around with you. It is nice to have but not necessary. Fortunately I do but I find that once I get the setup where I want I stop bringing the laptop and only to minor changes at home.
Tekin RS - $160
Hotwire - $38
Netbook - $220 (from Best Buy)
Total: $418
Black Diamond (1s): $349
So the price difference isn't anywhere near 2 Black Diamonds...not only that the RS at that will also run 2s where that version of the Black Diamond will not. So a better comparison would be with the 2s Black Diamond at $400. Plus many people already have a laptop already that they can use. If not they will have a desktop at home they can use. You don't have to have a laptop and haul it around with you. It is nice to have but not necessary. Fortunately I do but I find that once I get the setup where I want I stop bringing the laptop and only to minor changes at home.
08-10-2010 | 12:58 PM
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 900
May I allow a couple of facts to get in the way of all these stories about receiver packs and what they power? Thank you...
Most people use about 3000 to 4000 mAh from their main packs. Using the 4k figure to make the maths easy, that's about 500mAh per minute. At which rate, if the receiver pack were providing anything other than power for speedo, receiver, servo and PT, then it would last all of 30 seconds for a 250mAh pack. Since they last at least eight minutes...
As for the speedo re-charging the receiver pack, that is going to be a little on the difficult side. The speedo is a three-phase controller with BL, not a single phase controller. Unless it had a converter in it, there isn't any way a three phase supply can charge a battery. Since the converter would occupy as much space as the current three phase controller, speedos would be a lot bigger. Since they aren't...
What BD have done is to provide a plug for the incoming power to give life to all the electrics in the car bar the motor. This is no different to using the power from the main battery, which is how all the other speedos do it. The difference seems to be that BD will allow this power to come from either source, or maybe it just adds the receiver pack to the incoming cell and its regulator will take inputs up to 12v (2S + 1S) as the Tekin can.
Sorry that these facts may blow quite a few posts out of the water. I wait for the flaming to begin, but honestly chaps, these are the facts. HTH
Most people use about 3000 to 4000 mAh from their main packs. Using the 4k figure to make the maths easy, that's about 500mAh per minute. At which rate, if the receiver pack were providing anything other than power for speedo, receiver, servo and PT, then it would last all of 30 seconds for a 250mAh pack. Since they last at least eight minutes...
As for the speedo re-charging the receiver pack, that is going to be a little on the difficult side. The speedo is a three-phase controller with BL, not a single phase controller. Unless it had a converter in it, there isn't any way a three phase supply can charge a battery. Since the converter would occupy as much space as the current three phase controller, speedos would be a lot bigger. Since they aren't...
What BD have done is to provide a plug for the incoming power to give life to all the electrics in the car bar the motor. This is no different to using the power from the main battery, which is how all the other speedos do it. The difference seems to be that BD will allow this power to come from either source, or maybe it just adds the receiver pack to the incoming cell and its regulator will take inputs up to 12v (2S + 1S) as the Tekin can.
Sorry that these facts may blow quite a few posts out of the water. I wait for the flaming to begin, but honestly chaps, these are the facts. HTH
08-10-2010 | 02:05 PM
Tech Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,191
From: Hawaii, USA
Actually it does run 2s lipo. Quite well as a matter of fact.
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...rticle&sid=121
Also I tested 2s as hot as 10.5 with that speed control. It does not get warm at all. I pulled 10-15 feet on the straight over the "laptoppers". I ended up running back to back heats with the same motor and speed control (had 5 minutes to change battery and tires), the motor came off 125, speed control, had no heat. It was 95 degrees. I saw alot of the "laptoppers" letting out magic smoke out of both motors and speed controls trying to keep up.
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...rticle&sid=121
Also I tested 2s as hot as 10.5 with that speed control. It does not get warm at all. I pulled 10-15 feet on the straight over the "laptoppers". I ended up running back to back heats with the same motor and speed control (had 5 minutes to change battery and tires), the motor came off 125, speed control, had no heat. It was 95 degrees. I saw alot of the "laptoppers" letting out magic smoke out of both motors and speed controls trying to keep up.
08-10-2010 | 02:06 PM
Tech Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,191
From: Hawaii, USA
Or you can just hit up one of the guys at the track with the laptop and software. I dont like carrying the extra baggage to the track and there is always at least 3 or 4 guys there who can set you up. So now its down to just buying the speedo and the hotwire to mess with at home.
08-10-2010 | 02:15 PM
Tech Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,191
From: Hawaii, USA
I get 3 runs out of a 180mah lipo receiver pack on my BD. So apparently not only is my 180mah pack powering my car, but the BD is charging it as I run.
And for a guy like me that does not own a laptop, a tekin will cost me as much as 2 BD's.
Tekin+Hotwire+laptop = 2 Advanced speed controls.
It is a year later and the same conversation is still going on.
And for a guy like me that does not own a laptop, a tekin will cost me as much as 2 BD's.
Tekin+Hotwire+laptop = 2 Advanced speed controls.
It is a year later and the same conversation is still going on.
2 Tekin RS ESCs: $320
Hotwire: $38
Netbook: $220
Total: $578
2 Black Diamond 1s ESCs: $698
Since I currently use 2 RS ESCs not only did I save $120 but I still got a netbook in the deal