63LikesThe New Werks B5 .21 Racing Engine
05-26-2010 | 11:30 AM
#3556
I have about a gallon and a half on my b5 now and it seems to be getting stronger everytime I drive it. I don't race and never have(one day I will try it) but for the most part I just drive it out in an open area that has some BMX jumps. I guess I am pretty hard on it lots of WOT runs and I seem to average about 10:30 per tank from full to fumes. The 1130 min mark seems possible with the right driver on a track I assume. This is my first .21 motor so I can't really compare it to anything. My tuning is not the greatest as it took me some time to find the right needle balance and eliminate the high idle. It temps at around 215 with werks #5 plug and 2013 pipe. Byrons 30% Thanks Ron for all the good info you post on here it's what made me get this motor and helped me tune it.
there you go ron..... it does go 11:30 at the local bmx track and the street. dialed.
05-26-2010 | 11:41 AM
#3557
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 272
Hello sjracing, first off thank you for picking up one of our engines! I'm sorry that your request for info is kinda getting lost in between all of this drama lol! In any case in regards to break in please take a look at my break in instructions, this is a really simply system to use and is especially good to use if you are newer to tuning these type of engines as it is virtually impossible to run the engine too lean, which is important during break in!
Now you mentioned that your experience was in running nitro planes, so you have experience tuning engines. As you mentioned planes are a little different as they only have a HS needle and of course they are cooled by the prop so temps are not so big a factor. In any case with your carbs we have 3 basic adjustments, that is the HS needle that you are familiar with which sticks up from the top of the carb on a brass post, we have the LS needle which is the one on the end of the slide right where your servo linkage connects and we have the idle stop screw which is the screw that sits at a 45 degree angle right behind the carb venturi (if you look at the engine from the top). These are the three screws that you will be adjusting to break in your engine.
The way that you have to look at these is that the HS affects the overall fuel delivery (across the entire range of throttle movement), the LS affects the initial fuel delivery (from roughly throttle closed to about half way open) and the idle stop screw only dictates the minimum amount of air that the engine will get or basically how far you can close the throttle. At half throttle and above you would basically tune the engine the same way that you would your airplane motor. But at half throttle and below look at the LS and the HS kinda like your garden hose and the tap. The HS needle is the tap at the wall, if you turn it wide open you can move a lot of water through the hose (or in our case fuel through the carb) but if your nosle on the end of the hose (LS needle) is barely open you will only have a little bit of water going through it. So when breaking in your engine you want to have a lot of air and fuel flowing through your engine (you want the engine to be rich). The way that you do this is set your idle stop screw pretty far open (so you have a lot of air coming into the engine) and then you have your needles open really far so that you have a lot of fuel coming through the engine also.
Following my instructions each tank you lean the needles slightly, this means that you then have less fuel coming into the engine so you naturally need to reduce the amount of air also which is why you reduce the air gap using the idle stop screw. Take a look at my instructions with the engine actually in your hand and I think that it will start to make a little sense. Keep in mind that while doing this your engine will be telling you what needs to happen by what it is doing so once you start the system it really makes sense. Give it a shot and while your doing it if you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask!
Regards,
Ron
Now you mentioned that your experience was in running nitro planes, so you have experience tuning engines. As you mentioned planes are a little different as they only have a HS needle and of course they are cooled by the prop so temps are not so big a factor. In any case with your carbs we have 3 basic adjustments, that is the HS needle that you are familiar with which sticks up from the top of the carb on a brass post, we have the LS needle which is the one on the end of the slide right where your servo linkage connects and we have the idle stop screw which is the screw that sits at a 45 degree angle right behind the carb venturi (if you look at the engine from the top). These are the three screws that you will be adjusting to break in your engine.
The way that you have to look at these is that the HS affects the overall fuel delivery (across the entire range of throttle movement), the LS affects the initial fuel delivery (from roughly throttle closed to about half way open) and the idle stop screw only dictates the minimum amount of air that the engine will get or basically how far you can close the throttle. At half throttle and above you would basically tune the engine the same way that you would your airplane motor. But at half throttle and below look at the LS and the HS kinda like your garden hose and the tap. The HS needle is the tap at the wall, if you turn it wide open you can move a lot of water through the hose (or in our case fuel through the carb) but if your nosle on the end of the hose (LS needle) is barely open you will only have a little bit of water going through it. So when breaking in your engine you want to have a lot of air and fuel flowing through your engine (you want the engine to be rich). The way that you do this is set your idle stop screw pretty far open (so you have a lot of air coming into the engine) and then you have your needles open really far so that you have a lot of fuel coming through the engine also.
Following my instructions each tank you lean the needles slightly, this means that you then have less fuel coming into the engine so you naturally need to reduce the amount of air also which is why you reduce the air gap using the idle stop screw. Take a look at my instructions with the engine actually in your hand and I think that it will start to make a little sense. Keep in mind that while doing this your engine will be telling you what needs to happen by what it is doing so once you start the system it really makes sense. Give it a shot and while your doing it if you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask!
Regards,
Ron
05-26-2010 | 11:52 AM
#3558
Regards,
Ron
05-26-2010 | 11:55 AM
#3559
05-26-2010 | 12:03 PM
#3560
after i complimented you for your great customer service and awesome sales. So boo on you.again don't say you go 11:30 and then pit at 7.30.... run out of gas in truggy or flame out before 9 minutes......
I am truthful. i won't let you falsely say things.
I'm gone. bye ron !
Last edited by Jason Pelletier; 05-26-2010 at 12:14 PM.
05-26-2010 | 12:15 PM
#3561
Tech Rookie
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8
To be truthful, I said jumps not track. Bmx track might be fun though.
Like I said I know nothing about racing rc cars so I apoligize if some how me stating I got 1030 per tank bashing my rc was off the topic of racing and pit stop times.
05-26-2010 | 12:15 PM
#3562
Tech Rookie
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8
From: Illinois
Ron I have worked with a coupple of B5 motors and so far I like what I am seeing out of them neither motor has a gal on it yet and is deffinatlly been easy to tune and very predictable. I have noticed a big differance in temps between the motors that I can't quite figure out one likes to run at 225-231 that seems to be it's sweet spot and the other seems like it is still real fat in that range it need to be at least 240-250. They both have 3/4 of a gal on them and I am using the same fuel and the same pipe it is yours the 2053 or is it 2057 just too lazy to go and check. Has this ever happened to any of your motors in testing ? Just to let you know the motors are both in Rc8's with the same cluch setup and the same gearing. I know that would cause a differance and I have already thought of that and even swaped the buggy's just to see if anything would change.
05-26-2010 | 12:20 PM
#3563
Tech Initiate
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 32
RB FIVE, I like your comment about "your guy would have got smoked if the other guy would have not flamed out." To play that back at you weren't you not the guy in open buggy that was getting smoked after 10 minutes when the leader had flameout issues? I congratulate you on your win, but your after the race dance on the driver stand and running your mouth was not cool. I hope you come back to McCulloughs soon to race because you were a decent driver but leave your attitude back in New York.
05-26-2010 | 12:23 PM
#3564
You said i'm smoking crack remember ! after i complimented you for your great customer service and awesome sales. So boo on you.
again don't say you go 11:30 and then pit at 7.30.... run out of gas in truggy or flame out before 9 minutes......
I am truthful. i won't let you falsely say things.
I'm gone. bye ron !
after i complimented you for your great customer service and awesome sales. So boo on you.again don't say you go 11:30 and then pit at 7.30.... run out of gas in truggy or flame out before 9 minutes......
I am truthful. i won't let you falsely say things.
I'm gone. bye ron !
Ron
05-26-2010 | 12:25 PM
#3565
You said i'm smoking crack remember ! after i complimented you for your great customer service and awesome sales. So boo on you.
again don't say you go 11:30 and then pit at 7.30.... run out of gas in truggy or flame out before 9 minutes......
I am truthful. i won't let you falsely say things.
I'm gone. bye ron !
after i complimented you for your great customer service and awesome sales. So boo on you.again don't say you go 11:30 and then pit at 7.30.... run out of gas in truggy or flame out before 9 minutes......
I am truthful. i won't let you falsely say things.
I'm gone. bye ron !
05-26-2010 | 12:29 PM
#3566
Don't hate on me because I was able to do two things you couldn't. 1) tune my own engine. 2) get over 1 gallon on my B5 so far.
To be truthful, I said jumps not track. Bmx track might be fun though.
Like I said I know nothing about racing rc cars so I apoligize if some how me stating I got 1030 per tank bashing my rc was off the topic of racing and pit stop times.
To be truthful, I said jumps not track. Bmx track might be fun though.
Like I said I know nothing about racing rc cars so I apoligize if some how me stating I got 1030 per tank bashing my rc was off the topic of racing and pit stop times.
05-26-2010 | 12:35 PM
#3567
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,737
Wow!! Ok well I guess for some reason maybe I owe an apology?? For what I have no idea!
It sounds like the thread is going the wrong way. I thought when I said I pit at 730 it was to prove a point to another racer who was hung up on fuel mileage? And yes I tqed, had fast lap,had fastest top5 had fastest top 10 and had fastest top 20, but yes I'm sure I would have got smoked by someone who flamed out mid track then got to restart from pit lane loosing basically no time. Seems I get a fan club no matter where I go, I try and try to help out as much as I can and still manage to find em.. As far as truggy I pitted at 9,18, and 30 then ran out as leaving pit lane if you were beside yourga you would have seen him restart it, is this why I lost truggy? Absolutly not, I didn't drive well enough and Mazerra did, his car was awesome for 45 minutes so he deserved the win and I settled for 2nd....
But the whole 1130 thing, tell you what I'm sure you guys will be back for the cancer race, if I don't show you an 1130 run then I'll pick up the tab for B-dubs. If I do then you pick up the tab. This hobby is way up and down for people to be bitter about anything. I didn't think I was disrepecting anyone but seem to be made out a liar for some reason, if youtube went over 10 minute videos this conversation would have already been over.
But anyway it was a good race and had Mazarra not flamed out or ran out or whatever maybe the outcome would have been different maybe not, who knows its r/c racing anything can happen. With the werks engine I run through cases of fuel on the same engine with no trouble, I wish you would have let me take a look at yours there so we could have got it figured out, maybe next time.
Good luck, sorry for winning
It sounds like the thread is going the wrong way. I thought when I said I pit at 730 it was to prove a point to another racer who was hung up on fuel mileage? And yes I tqed, had fast lap,had fastest top5 had fastest top 10 and had fastest top 20, but yes I'm sure I would have got smoked by someone who flamed out mid track then got to restart from pit lane loosing basically no time. Seems I get a fan club no matter where I go, I try and try to help out as much as I can and still manage to find em.. As far as truggy I pitted at 9,18, and 30 then ran out as leaving pit lane if you were beside yourga you would have seen him restart it, is this why I lost truggy? Absolutly not, I didn't drive well enough and Mazerra did, his car was awesome for 45 minutes so he deserved the win and I settled for 2nd....
But the whole 1130 thing, tell you what I'm sure you guys will be back for the cancer race, if I don't show you an 1130 run then I'll pick up the tab for B-dubs. If I do then you pick up the tab. This hobby is way up and down for people to be bitter about anything. I didn't think I was disrepecting anyone but seem to be made out a liar for some reason, if youtube went over 10 minute videos this conversation would have already been over.
But anyway it was a good race and had Mazarra not flamed out or ran out or whatever maybe the outcome would have been different maybe not, who knows its r/c racing anything can happen. With the werks engine I run through cases of fuel on the same engine with no trouble, I wish you would have let me take a look at yours there so we could have got it figured out, maybe next time.
Good luck, sorry for winning
05-26-2010 | 12:37 PM
#3568
Lame. Ron, just ignore this. You can't satisfy everyone. If these engines were gone after a gallon, and Kortz couldn't do very well with them (and fuel economy is a big thing), people wouldn't use them, and him especially. Drivers at the level of Kortz won't mess with a sub-par product, free or not. I've seen people with full sponsorship deals just drop their full sponsorship deals for things like tires and electronics and pay for their stuff because they don't work like they want. At the level that Kortz races, if he's using the b5, it obviously just Werks, pun definitely intended.
Wayne
Wayne
05-26-2010 | 12:55 PM
#3569
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,252
From: W.V.
RB five- man I had lost some respect for you for after the race. Yes you did win but it def got handed to you.. It was a stratagy screw up from Bill Connards pit crew that handed you the race. But thats part of racing. So congrats on your win. But you def don't have room to talk a whole lot of trash. I also noticed in your other video from our A-main that you let a lap car who was almost right infront of you in your video absolutely pull away from you in only 2 minutes of that video. Whats funny about that is that is was me with a struggling engine due to have fuel tank problems all day.
You def didn't have the car to win but you did what it takes to win(so congrats). You beat 3 cars that had to be restarted. I def know I wish I didn't get caught up in the 1st lap wreck. I honestly think your results could have been alittle different. Or even if Chad Wallace didn't have a flame out issue and a non experianced pit person it could have been different. I just think you need a different attitude... I lost all respect for you.
-DC-
You def didn't have the car to win but you did what it takes to win(so congrats). You beat 3 cars that had to be restarted. I def know I wish I didn't get caught up in the 1st lap wreck. I honestly think your results could have been alittle different. Or even if Chad Wallace didn't have a flame out issue and a non experianced pit person it could have been different. I just think you need a different attitude... I lost all respect for you.
-DC-
05-26-2010 | 12:56 PM
#3570
Tech Adept
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 118
Lame. Ron, just ignore this. You can't satisfy everyone. If these engines were gone after a gallon, and Kortz couldn't do very well with them (and fuel economy is a big thing), people wouldn't use them, and him especially. Drivers at the level of Kortz won't mess with a sub-par product, free or not. I've seen people with full sponsorship deals just drop their full sponsorship deals for things like tires and electronics and pay for their stuff because they don't work like they want. At the level that Kortz races, if he's using the b5, it obviously just Werks, pun definitely intended.
Wayne
Wayne