Can somebody explain droop in detail?
10-08-2003, 08:37 AM
#16
How do you lift the car EXACTLY dead center?
10-08-2003, 08:38 AM
#17
If I can explain on pops behalf...
The "true" measurement of droop is the difference between a cars ride height, and the height the car can be lifted to before the wheels leave the ground.
So, a car with 5mm ride height, and 2mm droop, could be lifted to 7mm before the wheels leave the ground.
You can use a ride height gauge to measure these distances, although my gauge only goes to 6mm so I tend to use a steel rule.
The "true" measurement of droop is the difference between a cars ride height, and the height the car can be lifted to before the wheels leave the ground.
So, a car with 5mm ride height, and 2mm droop, could be lifted to 7mm before the wheels leave the ground.
You can use a ride height gauge to measure these distances, although my gauge only goes to 6mm so I tend to use a steel rule.
10-08-2003, 08:44 AM
#18
Also another quick point about lifting the car from the dead centre...
When you lift the car from dead centre, it will lean over towards the heavier side, and depending on the shock settings, one wheel could lift before the other, even if droop is set correctly.
Droop should be set evenly on both sides of the axle.
If you lift the car at the dead centre, with even side-to-side droop, and one wheel lifts before the other, it shows a chassis "tweak", which can be resolved by adjusting the spring collar on the opposite corner until the wheels rise at the same time. Don't compensate for tweak with uneven droop settings.
When you lift the car from dead centre, it will lean over towards the heavier side, and depending on the shock settings, one wheel could lift before the other, even if droop is set correctly.
Droop should be set evenly on both sides of the axle.
If you lift the car at the dead centre, with even side-to-side droop, and one wheel lifts before the other, it shows a chassis "tweak", which can be resolved by adjusting the spring collar on the opposite corner until the wheels rise at the same time. Don't compensate for tweak with uneven droop settings.
10-08-2003, 09:02 AM
#20
Tech Elite
Can somebody explain droop in detail
Guys;
Personally I use an Associated Ride Height Gauge (goes to 10mm), but would like something a little wider to keep the Car steadier when checking Droop.
I know about the Knife/Straightedge method, but as 'sosidge' stated the heavier side will tend to fall. This makes it very tricky if the side to side balance of the Car is off somewhat. For this reason, I prefer to use the Gauge.
Personally I use an Associated Ride Height Gauge (goes to 10mm), but would like something a little wider to keep the Car steadier when checking Droop.
I know about the Knife/Straightedge method, but as 'sosidge' stated the heavier side will tend to fall. This makes it very tricky if the side to side balance of the Car is off somewhat. For this reason, I prefer to use the Gauge.
10-08-2003, 09:06 AM
#21
Tech Elite
Can somebody explain droop in detail
Guys;
I would like to add than unless the surface is extremely high traction or a large and flowing track. You are better off NOT limiting Droop at either end of the Car.
Try it and you'll see what I mean.
I would like to add than unless the surface is extremely high traction or a large and flowing track. You are better off NOT limiting Droop at either end of the Car.
Try it and you'll see what I mean.
10-08-2003, 09:10 AM
#22
hhmm.. im still having problems picturing what you guys are talking about in my head... i guess ill have to find somebody at my track that can show me this method...
Let me see if I can get this right...
1. put car on setup board, with ride height already set (5mm lets say)
2. Pick up an end of the car at the dead center of the chassis
3. one tire will come off the ground before the other
4. stop lifting when the second tire is about to come off
5. add droop to the second arm, making it level with the arm that came up first
Is this right? But what do you do from there? Or is this all you guys do?
Let me see if I can get this right...
1. put car on setup board, with ride height already set (5mm lets say)
2. Pick up an end of the car at the dead center of the chassis
3. one tire will come off the ground before the other
4. stop lifting when the second tire is about to come off
5. add droop to the second arm, making it level with the arm that came up first
Is this right? But what do you do from there? Or is this all you guys do?
10-08-2003, 09:27 AM
#23
How about just putting a block under the car with a known measurement and you can easily figure out from there... Let's say the block is 30mm, 30mm on your ruler would be your 0 mark...
10-08-2003, 09:29 AM
#24
Tech Elite
Originally posted by holycow
hhmm.. im still having problems picturing what you guys are talking about in my head... i guess ill have to find somebody at my track that can show me this method...
Let me see if I can get this right...
1. put car on setup board, with ride height already set (5mm lets say) Correct, or just do it all at the same time
2. Pick up an end of the car at the dead center of the chassis.
This is the reason for using a set-up Gauge, very simple.
3. one tire will come off the ground before the other.
If your Droop setting is off.
4. stop lifting when the second tire is about to come off.
Stop lifting when the Gauge reads where you want your Droop to be. Then adjust the limiters to correct.
5. add droop to the second arm, making it level with the arm that came up first. On small Parking Lot Tracks, I would NOT limit Droop.
Is this right? But what do you do from there? Or is this all you guys do? That's it, now you can check Camber and Toe, then you're done.
hhmm.. im still having problems picturing what you guys are talking about in my head... i guess ill have to find somebody at my track that can show me this method...
Let me see if I can get this right...
1. put car on setup board, with ride height already set (5mm lets say) Correct, or just do it all at the same time
2. Pick up an end of the car at the dead center of the chassis.
This is the reason for using a set-up Gauge, very simple.
3. one tire will come off the ground before the other.
If your Droop setting is off.
4. stop lifting when the second tire is about to come off.
Stop lifting when the Gauge reads where you want your Droop to be. Then adjust the limiters to correct.
5. add droop to the second arm, making it level with the arm that came up first. On small Parking Lot Tracks, I would NOT limit Droop.
Is this right? But what do you do from there? Or is this all you guys do? That's it, now you can check Camber and Toe, then you're done.
Last edited by popsracer; 10-08-2003 at 09:35 AM.
10-08-2003, 09:38 AM
#25
Tech Elite
Originally posted by vtl1180ny
How about just putting a block under the car with a known measurement and you can easily figure out from there... Let's say the block is 30mm, 30mm on your ruler would be your 0 mark...
How about just putting a block under the car with a known measurement and you can easily figure out from there... Let's say the block is 30mm, 30mm on your ruler would be your 0 mark...
10-08-2003, 10:45 AM
#26
You can go to www.teamlosi.com click on tech tips,click on XXX-S tuning... Explains how droop works, then ride height!!! Notice they set droop first, then ride height??? Which goes back to my first post! Your car handles better for you with less droop!!? Problaby why your tires & suspension is up to your driving style in corners.. Droop is something you will have to play with!
Last edited by akrcracer; 10-08-2003 at 10:59 AM.
10-08-2003, 10:52 AM
#27
Tech Rookie
For response and for Track Conditions
In addition to what these guys have said about tuning droop for response, you can also tune for the bumps or irregular track surfaces.
For example if you going through a sweeper and on to a main straight and your car spins out from hitting a bumpy section, you can add droop (down travel) to keep the tires in contact with the track surface.
Also, for bumpier tracks, you'll want to run more droop. In general, for super smooth carpet situations, you can experiment with limiting droop to tune to your preference for response. As most guages measure in 1mm increments, you can try 1mm at a time so you can see the difference. Don't be afraid to experiment. I t also helps to make note of your changes.
One note: It is best to measure droop without shocks installed and without the swaybars installed at a consistent point on your arm or upright. (Serpent often recommends this for their fuel cars). Set the droop (using guages) the same from left to right. The front and rear can be different settings to control your chassis balance and responsiveness.
When done without shocks or swaybars, you can then install the shocks one at a time, while rechecking the droop for consistency. If you add the shocks and notice a change, your shock is likely too short, or needs a rebuild. The same with a sway bar. You add it in and use the guages to balance it from left to right by adjusting the sway bar mounting points (usually a set screw on a ball joint). In this way, you can sort out suspension problems (symmetry) while you are adjusting your settings. You combine the adjustments with inspection and maintenance to ensure consistency and top performance.
One last item, make sure your shocks are long enough to handle your droop setting. If the shocks are shorter on one side, you may not be able to to have consistent performance from left to right.
For example if you going through a sweeper and on to a main straight and your car spins out from hitting a bumpy section, you can add droop (down travel) to keep the tires in contact with the track surface.
Also, for bumpier tracks, you'll want to run more droop. In general, for super smooth carpet situations, you can experiment with limiting droop to tune to your preference for response. As most guages measure in 1mm increments, you can try 1mm at a time so you can see the difference. Don't be afraid to experiment. I t also helps to make note of your changes.
One note: It is best to measure droop without shocks installed and without the swaybars installed at a consistent point on your arm or upright. (Serpent often recommends this for their fuel cars). Set the droop (using guages) the same from left to right. The front and rear can be different settings to control your chassis balance and responsiveness.
When done without shocks or swaybars, you can then install the shocks one at a time, while rechecking the droop for consistency. If you add the shocks and notice a change, your shock is likely too short, or needs a rebuild. The same with a sway bar. You add it in and use the guages to balance it from left to right by adjusting the sway bar mounting points (usually a set screw on a ball joint). In this way, you can sort out suspension problems (symmetry) while you are adjusting your settings. You combine the adjustments with inspection and maintenance to ensure consistency and top performance.
One last item, make sure your shocks are long enough to handle your droop setting. If the shocks are shorter on one side, you may not be able to to have consistent performance from left to right.
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