Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
02-04-2008, 04:46 PM
#1876
02-04-2008, 05:03 PM
#1877
Jev-Thanks
MASON-I have studied the many oval chassis. Hyperdrive does some fine work. What I don't know is how far the racers actually move those batteries over on that adjustable tray. I imagine on a high speed banked oval where you can develop huge speeds and downforce by centrifugal action that maybe more weight is moved left. I have also seen that trick servo mount that moves the servo off the left side of the frame. As usual I have been unconventional and put my electronics left and left the LIPO well protected in the center portion of the frame. I may have to add lead. Depends on what the other guys want to run for batteries. So what I want is a starting point (like I run 5 ounces more on the left side on flat carpet). I have wheels on the car now, but no servo. I will weigh it as soon as I get the servo. Probably the one JEV suggested
KO PDS-2413
Torque: 118 oz-in (8.5Kg-cm)
Speed: 0.10 sec @ 60deg
Weight : 44.8g low profile.
I'll get an intermediate weight with a dummy servo later today.
Body will be a McAllister Nascar COT (car of tomorrow) Impala.
I put the car on the scales. It is 4.8 ounces or 13% heavier (of the body off 35.6 oz) on the left side
MASON-I have studied the many oval chassis. Hyperdrive does some fine work. What I don't know is how far the racers actually move those batteries over on that adjustable tray. I imagine on a high speed banked oval where you can develop huge speeds and downforce by centrifugal action that maybe more weight is moved left. I have also seen that trick servo mount that moves the servo off the left side of the frame. As usual I have been unconventional and put my electronics left and left the LIPO well protected in the center portion of the frame. I may have to add lead. Depends on what the other guys want to run for batteries. So what I want is a starting point (like I run 5 ounces more on the left side on flat carpet). I have wheels on the car now, but no servo. I will weigh it as soon as I get the servo. Probably the one JEV suggested
KO PDS-2413
Torque: 118 oz-in (8.5Kg-cm)
Speed: 0.10 sec @ 60deg
Weight : 44.8g low profile.
I'll get an intermediate weight with a dummy servo later today.
Body will be a McAllister Nascar COT (car of tomorrow) Impala.
I put the car on the scales. It is 4.8 ounces or 13% heavier (of the body off 35.6 oz) on the left side
Last edited by John Stranahan; 02-04-2008 at 05:44 PM.
02-04-2008, 05:38 PM
#1878
http://www.rc50.com/modules.php?name...bum=49&pos=164
this is standard for the snowbirds race. every paved or carpet oval currently in existence that i know of is flat. only banked one was concrete in jacksonville florida but no longer exists. i'm sure there are some out there only i don't know about them. i would think when the banking gets higher the batteries start moving to the right a little bit to keep your weight percentages even due to more downward force on the springs when running banking. otherwise the car would start getting a little erattic. i'm sure there's a range where things apply and don't apply. guess thats what testing is for!
this is standard for the snowbirds race. every paved or carpet oval currently in existence that i know of is flat. only banked one was concrete in jacksonville florida but no longer exists. i'm sure there are some out there only i don't know about them. i would think when the banking gets higher the batteries start moving to the right a little bit to keep your weight percentages even due to more downward force on the springs when running banking. otherwise the car would start getting a little erattic. i'm sure there's a range where things apply and don't apply. guess thats what testing is for!
02-04-2008, 05:48 PM
#1879
Mason-Thanks. Enlarging that photo helped. It looks like with his 4 cell car he has got batteries and speed control lined up with the edge of the body. I'll do some tinkering.
Moving the 4 cell pack from middle to the edge of the body adds about 3.3 ounces of side weight. I think I am in the ball park now at 4.8 ounces.
John
Moving the 4 cell pack from middle to the edge of the body adds about 3.3 ounces of side weight. I think I am in the ball park now at 4.8 ounces.
John
02-09-2008, 01:29 PM
#1884
Dumper-Thanks for the link. Nice looking car
Track Report
93 F. Traction medium
I only have a couple of recent runs on the wide pan so far. Today was the best. I put a half batch of sugar water on the track and I had fair traction. This Nissan Z body was not accelerating straight on the long straight. I put a small touring car wing in addition to the spoiler before this session. I think this is exactly what I had, last time I ran it. What it really needs is a 235 mm touring car like wing (like on the full size version). I did not find one that was suitably light weight. Anyway a wing and spoiler works great if you are not running under GT rules which require only one. I would put more effort into a search if I was limited this way.
Early in the thread we discussed rolling on the throttle gently just out of a corner then gradually up to speed, and then faster once the wings kick in all the extra downforce. I have this down on the big straight again after two packs. I am getting full speed before the sweeper. (Note that normally this takes weeks if you have not learned on a pan car.) I am not yet getting my full throttle points on the short straights but I am going at a pretty good speed. Tomorrow I will have a bit more traction, I'll see how much I progress. The car is starting to feel good and at home now.
John
Track Report
93 F. Traction medium
I only have a couple of recent runs on the wide pan so far. Today was the best. I put a half batch of sugar water on the track and I had fair traction. This Nissan Z body was not accelerating straight on the long straight. I put a small touring car wing in addition to the spoiler before this session. I think this is exactly what I had, last time I ran it. What it really needs is a 235 mm touring car like wing (like on the full size version). I did not find one that was suitably light weight. Anyway a wing and spoiler works great if you are not running under GT rules which require only one. I would put more effort into a search if I was limited this way.
Early in the thread we discussed rolling on the throttle gently just out of a corner then gradually up to speed, and then faster once the wings kick in all the extra downforce. I have this down on the big straight again after two packs. I am getting full speed before the sweeper. (Note that normally this takes weeks if you have not learned on a pan car.) I am not yet getting my full throttle points on the short straights but I am going at a pretty good speed. Tomorrow I will have a bit more traction, I'll see how much I progress. The car is starting to feel good and at home now.
John
02-10-2008, 02:13 AM
#1885
John, I've always found my laptimes to be faster without full throttle on the infield, even in TC.
You get the same acceleration with 1/2 to 3/4 throttle without the major current draw of full throttle.
You can also carve tighter lines with less throttle, what really improves laptimes, especially with a pancar.
What are your experiences on this?
You get the same acceleration with 1/2 to 3/4 throttle without the major current draw of full throttle.
You can also carve tighter lines with less throttle, what really improves laptimes, especially with a pancar.
What are your experiences on this?
02-10-2008, 07:57 AM
#1886
Mathijs-It depends a lot on the layout. Ours is run clockwise. We made a short cut on our layout that removed the long straight. The cutout was just after turn #4. Entered the short straight between turn 8 and 9. The car was now cornering 80% of the time and full throttle was not needed except on the straight near the drivers stand (just after turn 10). Our full course seems to requires full throttle in about 5-6 places to get the best time with the touring car or pan car.
Full throttle points going clockwise
Mid straight after turn four
After turn six while car is straight for a moment
After turn 8 mid straight then brakes
After turn 9 if traction is good then brakes
After turn 10 bumpy then full throttle near triangle
Note that I am not hitting most of these full throttle points at the moment and I can see from the Nitros that I am not going as fast as before. A few more sessions should have me back to speed. What I am getting now is a snap spin if I get to full throttle in the infield. My trigger finger is rolling on the throtle at slightly the wrong variable rate.
Thanks for the post.
John
Full throttle points going clockwise
Mid straight after turn four
After turn six while car is straight for a moment
After turn 8 mid straight then brakes
After turn 9 if traction is good then brakes
After turn 10 bumpy then full throttle near triangle
Note that I am not hitting most of these full throttle points at the moment and I can see from the Nitros that I am not going as fast as before. A few more sessions should have me back to speed. What I am getting now is a snap spin if I get to full throttle in the infield. My trigger finger is rolling on the throtle at slightly the wrong variable rate.
Thanks for the post.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 02-12-2008 at 11:11 AM.
02-10-2008, 09:51 AM
#1887
John, do you let go the throttle completely at points?
I found keeping at least 25% throttle all the times keeps the car rolling through the corners best. This keeps the momentum up, making accelerating harḍut of the corner easier.
It still strikes me as odd that you need brakes.
I only use brakes when in real problems. For the rest just turning in hard scrubs enough speed to get me from full speed through any slow corner.
I'de think you might have to much rear downforce dialled in. This would give you troubles turning into slow corners. Steering would then return when you've slowed down enough.
Maybe it's just pancar vs nitro/TC driving style though.
I found keeping at least 25% throttle all the times keeps the car rolling through the corners best. This keeps the momentum up, making accelerating harḍut of the corner easier.
It still strikes me as odd that you need brakes.
I only use brakes when in real problems. For the rest just turning in hard scrubs enough speed to get me from full speed through any slow corner.
I'de think you might have to much rear downforce dialled in. This would give you troubles turning into slow corners. Steering would then return when you've slowed down enough.
Maybe it's just pancar vs nitro/TC driving style though.
02-10-2008, 03:13 PM
#1888
Mathijs- You have a suspicion my car is not turning in hard. I assure you that it does. We had a short session on an oval on the track today. The car was pitted against an RC10L4O. It easily outturned and outhandled the other car both with the same tires even though my weight is balanced left to right. It out turns the touring car which turns pretty hard on the rubber tires. The 3.5 with its low gear and soft bottom end was easy to throttle up and back on the oval.
On slow speed turns the downforce is usually inefective. I balanced the downforce on the high speed sweeper and turn 1 which is very high speed as well. It required two wings for lack of a sufficiently wide 235 mm wing. I noticed the oval car was running spoiler and wing as well.
Whether to use brakes or not is a simple test. When running with the timer calling lap times, I tried it both ways. Brakes was .4 faster per lap. Now if there were 12 other pan cars running the wide line there might be more traction there, but for me it is come in hot brake lightly turn in sharp. The touring car runs the fastest lap with a medium turn, only the lightest brakes, and making sure it stays on the track of the best layed down rubber. Basically the Nitro line. I don't even need to cut the apex tight with the touring car as this gets me into a non used area of the track and I loose lap time. You only learn these things with a counter counting your lap times out loud.
I picked up 4 more of my full throttle points. This is really an indication of how fast the car is going on these sections of the track. Full throttle is not really possible unless the car is going about 40-45 mph and gaining traction from the wing. An old fart needs a little more practice when changing cars. I am passing some of the Nitros again. One more session should fix me up.
I only really get off throttle completely for the two hairpins.
John
On slow speed turns the downforce is usually inefective. I balanced the downforce on the high speed sweeper and turn 1 which is very high speed as well. It required two wings for lack of a sufficiently wide 235 mm wing. I noticed the oval car was running spoiler and wing as well.
Whether to use brakes or not is a simple test. When running with the timer calling lap times, I tried it both ways. Brakes was .4 faster per lap. Now if there were 12 other pan cars running the wide line there might be more traction there, but for me it is come in hot brake lightly turn in sharp. The touring car runs the fastest lap with a medium turn, only the lightest brakes, and making sure it stays on the track of the best layed down rubber. Basically the Nitro line. I don't even need to cut the apex tight with the touring car as this gets me into a non used area of the track and I loose lap time. You only learn these things with a counter counting your lap times out loud.
I picked up 4 more of my full throttle points. This is really an indication of how fast the car is going on these sections of the track. Full throttle is not really possible unless the car is going about 40-45 mph and gaining traction from the wing. An old fart needs a little more practice when changing cars. I am passing some of the Nitros again. One more session should fix me up.
I only really get off throttle completely for the two hairpins.
John
02-11-2008, 02:37 AM
#1890
2009 Pro 10 world championship... 
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