I'd just like to add something to your post about 'lack of interest' TomB.

I wasnt at the winterchamps so i wont comment on that, but here are my thoughs:

I've been into rc racing for years now, the T1 was an absolute WEAPON when i started for reference sake, and one thing i always looked forward to was all these 'BIG' events!

But something that is lacking nowadays, that USED to be around, is variety!

We used to have BIG meetings at: Rooty Hill, Forrestville, Brush Farm, Canberra outdoors and indoors, Mingara (who ever speaks of that club anymore???...it's my 'home' club, but everyone seems to have forgotten its existance)... and the list goes on.

Now, when i look at the racing calendar i see, Whalan, Tamworth, Fairy Meadow, Whalan, Tamworth, Fairy Meadow... (of course this is a broad exaggeration for those paying attention).

For the average 'Clubby' who wants to attend a big meet, they have to travel to a track unfamiliar to them and have their asses whooped by the fast guys who have run the same meeting there before, time and time again. Who wants to return to that meeting next year, when they know the same blokes will be lapping them again?

I wont go into much more detail, but i hope you see my point???

'Major event' rc racing has lost its appeal to the majority of 'average' racers, these days we see the same Top guns going to all the big meets, at the same venues, competing for the same titles.

With more variety, it gives us intermediate racers a SLIGHTLY more level playing field with the big boys, not taking in to account the Lipo/Brushless debarcle... but lets not go there.

Just my 2 cents for this evening, i hope you all see what im trying to say.

Sorry to Hijack!

Cheers,

Robbie

You will always have the top drivers at the big meetings. The difference at the weekend wa that instead of 40 to 60 entries in stock, there were only 20. I'm not sure of the real reason for this but it may have something to do with the control tyre.

I know that without the preparation on the control tyre that many put in, it was very difficult to get a good run early on.

Good point, I know i'm still finding my feet on Rubber Tires.

Perhaps we need to introduce a control foam tire!?... only kidding.

Its great to follow the rest of the world in terms of rules and regs, but it's also great just to go out and have some good ol' fun, and hard racing... wouldn't you all agree???

Cheers,

Robbie

Rubber tyres what is the fuss all about im really confused i personally was not at winterchamps un fortunately but does not matter what event it is running control tyres it is the best method to try and control part of that class,only till recently i only ran gas and have just got back into ep before the tamworth cup. I had a few old sets of rubber tyres that come with car kits from years back and had them sitting around. threw them on my fttc4 with 19turn motor and had no real difference in laptimes from practice to running new tyres at the event,and these tyres were F%%%%%%ed trust me all split perished.... the car setup i run was from online with few minor changes too suit my driving style and setups are available from all manufacturers websites for rubber tyres....
Really cant see the big fuss on rubber tyres you pay similar money for foams these days from aussie shops and you only need one sort of tyre when its controlled....

Honestly many racers i believe have or do run rubbers these days at club race days so i believe everyone should just get used too it.....
I have a few guys at our club running rubbers and are only real budget racers and have not complained once about having to run rubbers..... and have a few different brands in their boxes....
And i know this same argument will be brought up at the ep state titles in august and also what makes stock drivers so different to mod,19turn and even 540 drivers having to run on rubbers.....

Just one more thing race referees previous experiences should be a must at any event........

Controlled tires is a non-issue.
If you are going to spend $30+ entering a race, surely you will be getting fresh tires for the event????????
And if you are are going to get tires for the event, having controlled tires just make the decision a whole lot simpler.

I agree with Mango.
My main issue is having to race with BL 13.5s.
Manufacturers can’t even agree jack shit on what constitutes 13.5s and here we are trying to mix them together with brushed 27T.

- sintered 13.5 vs 27T .. the outcome is a no brainer.
- Bonded 13.5 vs 27T .. still possible and is the go in many places. But LRP’s latest bonded x-11 13.5 (which is allowed for WinterChamps) looks to be comparable to novak’s sintered 13.5 .. so ... back to square 1.

I’m all for BL and I’m certain I will be getting 1 in the near future .. but for goodness sake, run them in a separate class, most definitely not 27T. not until we can all agree what 13.5 means!!

I believe the reasons why club challenge continue to be popular are:-
- everybody knows the rules
- everyone racing for clubs and not for themselves
- the single BEST opportunity for new racers to participate in big race meets – racing with rules they know, with people they know

In all other big meets like the Nationals, state titles, SummerNats, Winterchamps .. it’s every racer for himself.
Who gives a stuff about newbies? THAT'S A FACT. Let’s not deny that.

I agree with everything Mongo Man has said My issue is with the monoply of such events of Winternats. If your not HEI incorporated your not in the click. I know a number of my friends have given up because of the crap associated with such events. Personally I admire blokes like Cannon who keep the big name suppliers honest. I have just got a new car and am looking forward getting back into it even going to join SMA

My opinions only

I just thought I would add my perspective, as I am one of the people who decided not to enter on the weekend.

I can honestly say that the issue of control tyres was the only reason I didn't enter on the weekend. It's not so much that I mind running on rubber, it's just that I don't think $40 is that much of a bargain (or $80 when you get a new set for the finals). If the race rules dictated that the control tyre was a sorex 32, but that you could buy the tyres from other sources and you could install them on whatever rims and inserts you had lying around, I probably would have entered.

Good point, the control tires were actually sold at more than the wholesalers regular list price, to a guaranteed market.

Part of the sponsorship of the event should be to make the control tires cheaper, the sponsor will still make money out of the practice sets used in the leadup. And also subsequent slaes as most bashers will just buy the same combo next time they head to the shop.

the reasons that have been brought up is why i went to nitro over a year ago, open tires, yeah we all run foam but that is cause it is what works on the track, nitro motors are all the same(in principal) so none of the brushed/brushless carry on. just my 2c

controll tires, piss it off, we dont need it.

In its current form its not working, but open rubber is a nightmare.

We just need to enforce a max tire cost, only 1 set min for racers, and leave the max the same so that only 2 runs are required per set.

The lower tire price will allow even those who are prepared to race on old rubber enter the event.

exactly. people say "oww if you are prepared to enter an event that costs $30 then you should be prepared to pay $40 for tyres" well that's if you wish to be competitive. there are alot of people out there who just want to bash around in a fun atmosphere and enjoy the day. If people want to race on old sets let them do it i recon.

The other problem with control rubbers is it is monopolising the tyre market. there are no other brands used except for Sorex and much more. Now that sorex is sold cheaply by others the supplier of tyres for these events has shifted tot he much more brand. It seems this has been done to reduce the influence one seller has had on the price of tyres.

there are many brands of tyres in japan, yet not many here. This is the reason why control tyre rules should be re adjusted to avoid the monopolising of the supply of tyres to one distributor only. If the variety of brands is not available to make the process impartial (ie each event has a different brand/supplier) then scrap the idea and make it either open, or implement some sort of a points system or something.

you could have a system where all entrants can run on open tyres during qualifying, yet the finals (the top 10 qualifying, or top 8) have to be run on 1 set of control tyres for the final . any lower finals are allowed to run on open tyres. Problem solved.

people can run what they have, the new brands get exposure through the use of a product at a event, (an example of exposure through use is sorex. It got popular with southern cross hobbies importing it. remember everyone used to say take offs were the bee's knees. when southern cross sold its biz, HEI purchased the rights i think and then everyone went ape sh1t over them, and rightly so, they are very good tyres. my point is though a small boutique importer kicked it off)

control tyres would still be used, but only for the A's. if you make the A's you buy 1 set (or two dependant on what the race organiser/supplier stipulates). EASY! Supplier also knows the exact amount htey need to supply, whether there is 100 entrants or 20 entrants.

this rule also makes it easier for smaller boutique brands to show their wears, and means that a distributor does not have to fork out massive cash to expose a new tyre brand.

sounds reasonable but would be a logistical nightmare.
every racer will have multiple sets of tires (controlled & non-controlled) available at any one time.

it will be very difficult to implement in a racing environment.

I dont think there is any monopoly of the tire market. If organisers were to shop around, im sure they would be able to find someone to bulk sell them some Xenons, Take Offs, RPs....
I believe Take Offs are used quite commonly in VIC anyway.

I also think youll find that suppliers will generally give the club a good rate too so that there is a small margin which goes back to supporting the club, so it can be in the interests of the club to shop around.

One thing which i find interesting and no one has complained about is the common use of 36s for stock racing. It would be a real pain to have two different sets of tires for different classes. But in stock racing 36s can last a long time so you dont want too many of them floating around.

Further to which the use of 36s in some classes forces people to use goop, which a lot of the less serious racers do not use. I know someone who didnt use goop at the HPI challenge (saturday) and he said his car was sliding around all over the place.

BTW Deano if you can find a set of sorex's with rims and inserts at a shop for $40 let me know. In my opinion thats a good deal. Also i thought the minimum was for 1 set of tires (buying extra tires for qualifying or the finals was optional). My main concern when i entered was that i didnt want to spend $40 for a set of the older generation of sorex's which are by far of inferior wear and grip.

Adam.A on these forums has a online store (www.rctyres.com.au i think it is, i don't race electric any more so i haven't visted for a while) anyway, he sells sorex tyres at a rate close to that. maybe $6 more or so i think. I don't think many Japanese brands give exclusivity rights for distribution from what i heard so many people can bring in stock and sell it.

if the rules were slightly tweaked to support smaller importers you may find that more companies will import different brands, hence increasing supply and chances of new brands being used and exposed to the market through events. TOP racing has tyres i think. Rod brings them in, just one example of a small guy bringing in a lesser known brand.

i say leave tyres open (but limited to rubbers), and when the finals come around hand out the control tyres to the A finalists. If times are quicker during qualifying with open tyres, then this will shed some light ont he brands and inserts that are quick, hence increasing reputation of the lesser known brand/combo, and hence future events would consider using the tyres. It isn't hard to control at all, infact it is easier to control because you know who has the tyres, and you check them straight away at scrutineering, less chance of tampering etc.