Change the Hobby for the Better - TODAY -
11-15-2006, 08:14 AM
#91
Originally Posted by Francis M.
I think soviet makes a good point on how intimidating it is or how complicated things look nowadays compared to when most of us started.
If I was to walk in on a race now and see how much support equipment is used in the pit area. I probably would not even consider racing.
i do think that the manufacturers are realizing this and is now offering a lower priced kit just like xray and h/b.
If I was to walk in on a race now and see how much support equipment is used in the pit area. I probably would not even consider racing.
i do think that the manufacturers are realizing this and is now offering a lower priced kit just like xray and h/b.
WOW! I'm flattered...THE Matt Francis just agreed with me!
Big ups to Matt!
Well...just got home from my Calculus exam...I'm burnt.
I really think the point is that to improve the hobby, for better or worse we need to:
#1: INCREASE EXPOSURE...
I remember the VERY FIRST TIME I saw a real live R/C race. It was in 1986 (I was 7), my father took me to Andy's hobbies in Kendall Florida. The guys were racing in the K-mart Parking lot across the street from the hobby shop. The cars were 1/8th scale gas. They were INSANE. I can remember right then and there begging my Dad to take me to K-mart to get the Nikko R/C car I wanted. My father simply laughed and said : " I'll get you that Nikko, OR if you're willing to build a car with me, I'll get you a REAL R/C car if you do good this report card."
In 2 months my Dad came home with a gently used Tamiya Hornet, FUtaba Magnum Jr. radio and a turn dial Panda 15-min charger. From that day on I was hooked. What hooked me though was seeing how cool the cars were in the first place though. So lesson is... GET OUTSIDE and RACE. Make a scene! If people want to know whats up...do talk to them and encourage the less expensive ways to get started.
Remember...I saw 1/8th gas cars racing...however I was still more than happy with a Hornet.
#2: FINALLY create hard (ROAR, IFMAR) rules for a beginner / "don't want to spend too much" class.
Lets get real. Life is expensive. Gas has almost tripled in price within the last 3 years. People are taking home less money. Lets create a spec-type class not just for the beginners, but for those folks who simply can't or don't want to sink $2000.00+ into racing equipment.
Personally, I'm a pretty darn good driver when I get the time to practice. However it took all I could muster to afford the gear that alot of racers at my track could snap up in a second. We need a class for skilled drivers that don't want to spend insane amounts of money. Sub-$200 chassis with "stock" brushless perhaps. Sure a brushless set costs more in the beginning, however you simply choose a motor and stick with it for 3 or more years at a time.
#3: Attitude
We need to get back to remembering that this is supposed to be FUN. I can't count the number of times I've seen people flip the hell out and totally make asses out of themselves at the track. Shoot, I've seen a guy just about deck another driver just for putting him into the boards before. The worst thing was that there was a nice crowd of families there at the time with kiddos 'a watchin'.
Not the best way to promote the sport. This actually relates to the rules as well: If people are always worried about getting the comm cut, tires cut, repairs made, batteries topped off, tires juiced, brushes changed, motor broken in and re-installed just before the next round...how can that much work be fun over the long term???
One big change would simply be to BAN / ELIMINATE foam tires. Rubbers don't hurt carpet (contrary to what some hobby-shops say [Hi Debbies!]
) They wear way too fast on carpet. Plus they add alot of work / expense to indoor carpet. The Europeans run rubbers indoors. Why can't we?!?!?
Anyhow...I'm sure things will one day straighten out. As long as the racers keep having real discussions like this, then the future may end up ok after all.
-Sean
11-15-2006, 08:43 AM
#92
Great stuff in here.
Glad to see some actual ideas coming....
Soviet You make some great points.
I agree that maybe the "mall" idea is NOT a good one. I was just throwing that out there as a Project #1 as several people offered to help get it going.
As I said, all this discussion is great, I am enjoying and taking notes on many of these comments and ideas.
We still need to get organized to do anything. As I talked about way back when, we need some people to step up. There have been several VERY well thought out posts so far, maybe some of you would like to help with this effort???
To answer those who question my credibility:
I started this thread because I have seen and read about the decline in organized R/C racing as whole.
I thought "Hey, I have some time, some skills, maybe I could DO something.
I do NOT want to be in "charge" of this whole concept, just to try and guide it into formation. After that, the whole group is equally resonsible and in charge.
My background:
Started racing Dirt Oval (RC10 East Coast) back in 1986. Moved on to Asphalt soon after, then gave off-road a try (bad idea!) and finally to Touring Cars (boy did I love my TA-02...) to where we are now.
I'm 44 years old, a Graphic Designer/Marketing Mgr/Product Mgr, and still a "big kid" when it comes to my toys. I love the building, setup, and skill it takes to be competitive in the "sport". I build models, play guitar, and watch a bunch of TV.
Feel free to contact me.
Neal Cahill
experience2create
504 West 91st Street
Kanas City, MO 64114
816.363.0950 wrk
816.678.2288 mbl
http://www.experience2create.com
"Never be in two places at once...."
Glad to see some actual ideas coming....
Soviet You make some great points.
I agree that maybe the "mall" idea is NOT a good one. I was just throwing that out there as a Project #1 as several people offered to help get it going.
As I said, all this discussion is great, I am enjoying and taking notes on many of these comments and ideas.
We still need to get organized to do anything. As I talked about way back when, we need some people to step up. There have been several VERY well thought out posts so far, maybe some of you would like to help with this effort???
To answer those who question my credibility:
I started this thread because I have seen and read about the decline in organized R/C racing as whole.
I thought "Hey, I have some time, some skills, maybe I could DO something.
I do NOT want to be in "charge" of this whole concept, just to try and guide it into formation. After that, the whole group is equally resonsible and in charge.
My background:
Started racing Dirt Oval (RC10 East Coast) back in 1986. Moved on to Asphalt soon after, then gave off-road a try (bad idea!) and finally to Touring Cars (boy did I love my TA-02...) to where we are now.
I'm 44 years old, a Graphic Designer/Marketing Mgr/Product Mgr, and still a "big kid" when it comes to my toys. I love the building, setup, and skill it takes to be competitive in the "sport". I build models, play guitar, and watch a bunch of TV.
Feel free to contact me.
Neal Cahill
experience2create
504 West 91st Street
Kanas City, MO 64114
816.363.0950 wrk
816.678.2288 mbl
http://www.experience2create.com
"Never be in two places at once...."
11-15-2006, 09:12 AM
#95
[QUOTE=Francis M.]
HAHAHAHA
I cant wait to see if you can actually do anything about the hobby. I sometimes wish the govern ing bodies would just outline some totally brand new rules and people would just get used to it. The problem is whenever a change is put forward the majority of current racers oppose it.
Originally Posted by Soviet
WOW! I'm flattered...THE Matt Francis just agreed with me!
Big ups to Matt!
ha ha. I do agree with you but i'm not matt francis. lol
Big ups to Matt!
ha ha. I do agree with you but i'm not matt francis. lol
I cant wait to see if you can actually do anything about the hobby. I sometimes wish the govern ing bodies would just outline some totally brand new rules and people would just get used to it. The problem is whenever a change is put forward the majority of current racers oppose it.
11-15-2006, 09:59 AM
#96
imo r/c racing as far as big events is fine. there is enough to fill up the big events unfortunately these big events is only good advertising to those that is already hardcore in this hobby/sprort how ever you want to call it. It is the club level racing or weekly racing that has went down in numbers.
11-15-2006, 03:32 PM
#99
There are many levels to this hobby and I don't think that anyone is trying to debate that. YOU choose which level you wan't to participate at. If you want to backyard bash, DO IT! If you want to race novice class, DO IT! If you want to spend $1000 every six months on the newest technology, then DO IT! If we have 40 racers show up to race stock, only 10 are going to make the A-main and they will compete. If you feel inferior with your $200 setup, and have been banished to the D main, put your car on the track, compete and have a good time. The .5 second that you lose every lap because of your equipment will put you in a heat with 9 other racers who are having a good time. Half of the stuff that we spend money on in this hobby is just to cover up for a lack of practice. "If this discharger gives me .05 per lap, I'd better buy it." You can get .05 per lap by not hitting the flapper in the infield. My point is this. I work at a Hobby shop and I see different people from different walks of life with different ideas of how they want to spend their different paychecks. $1000 Revos that never see the dirt, 70 mph 4-tecs that now go 120 (because their friends cousin who knows a cop, clocked it). I'm not going to blame the industry or technology for my spending habits. My RDX is just as competitive as this months flavor of XRAY, and Saturday I'm going to prove it. And if I don't, I'll pat the winner on the back, congratulate him and I'll be back next week with the same objective in mind. Spend your money where you want. Use your time in the hobby however you choose. After all, it's YOUR choice to spend or not to spend your money. If you don't like spending the money, play softball. I believe it's still pretty cheap.
11-15-2006, 04:05 PM
#100
Originally Posted by Tsquare
Your next point about skill set. I cannot tell you how many young kids / adults in RC car racing for just 4 to 5 years that are able to compete at a very high level, I see new facs at every major race I go to each year. It does not take 10 to 20 years to develope a skill set for RC car racing. If you have talent and desire you can be competitive in just a few years. I will add that this goes for most activities and sports - to get good you need to practice, if you are fortunate and have talent, then your growth will be faster, and at higher levels - I do not see RC car racing being any different from any other activty or sport.
The last point is there are plenty of inexpensive car choices today, and if you are lucky eough to have a Tamiya TCS series race in your town, this is easily the best spec racing program in the world - you can race with a $60.00 dollar car, and the use of hopups are strictly enforced. My point is you can enjoy this sport on a low budget if you choose to. Rc car racing is no different then in any other form of auto racing or competitive sport. I may not be the best golfer, surfer, baseball player or RC car driver, but I enjoy all those sports and I have no intention of not playing or participating in any of them, because I cannot win all the time - thats just silly - I play because I enjoy it.
The last point is there are plenty of inexpensive car choices today, and if you are lucky eough to have a Tamiya TCS series race in your town, this is easily the best spec racing program in the world - you can race with a $60.00 dollar car, and the use of hopups are strictly enforced. My point is you can enjoy this sport on a low budget if you choose to. Rc car racing is no different then in any other form of auto racing or competitive sport. I may not be the best golfer, surfer, baseball player or RC car driver, but I enjoy all those sports and I have no intention of not playing or participating in any of them, because I cannot win all the time - thats just silly - I play because I enjoy it.
Yeah TCS is a good program and I think the novice, stock, mod class and moving up in class when you win consistently should be the enforced.
11-16-2006, 08:16 AM
#101
Quick Update....
Finally had the first person step forward and say "I'm in". Congrats.
We still need people. I'd love to get some of you "Team Guys" involved. I know you all are busy, but this idea could potentially shape your future.
Anyone else interested in offering your time, skills or interests to the group?
We need:
Someone with organizational skills (good with Excel, Project Coordination, Management)
Someone with strong ties to the industry and pro racers.
Someone with Legal Background or Attorney?
Someone for general legwork in the 3 zones.
The more the better. As has been stated, there are a ton of good ideas in here but, we need to take baby steps and get the organizational stuff done first. Once in place, we can open the doors for ideas, comments and complaints.
PLEASE, Your time and efforts will be needed, stay tuned, and if you are interested in getting involved, contact me.
Thanks!
Finally had the first person step forward and say "I'm in". Congrats.
We still need people. I'd love to get some of you "Team Guys" involved. I know you all are busy, but this idea could potentially shape your future.
Anyone else interested in offering your time, skills or interests to the group?
We need:
Someone with organizational skills (good with Excel, Project Coordination, Management)
Someone with strong ties to the industry and pro racers.
Someone with Legal Background or Attorney?
Someone for general legwork in the 3 zones.
The more the better. As has been stated, there are a ton of good ideas in here but, we need to take baby steps and get the organizational stuff done first. Once in place, we can open the doors for ideas, comments and complaints.
PLEASE, Your time and efforts will be needed, stay tuned, and if you are interested in getting involved, contact me.
Thanks!
11-16-2006, 11:04 AM
#102
FreqETag- Hey, thanks for the info....
Yes, still a lot of good ideas/suggestions coming in, and there seems to be a common thread among the posters here that:
1. The cost of sedan racing and support equiptment is way too high.
2. Racing in "public settings" is the key to attracting new racers.
3. Everyone seems to remember how much fun it was when they first started racing.
4. The race days are too long.
5. Offroad is still going strong while Onroad continues to decline.
Thinking about these things has me wanting to share a class that we run here in South Jersey.....Rally!
I'm not expecting a ton of people to agree that this is the answer to cure all, but just wanted to put this out there for anyone interested:
1. When it comes to cost, these things are as cheap as you can get and there are very limited hop ups. Heck, there are only two tire compounds, soft and hard!
There are probably a billion older sedan chassis' laying around that can be easily coverted to a rally car!
2. You don't need a purpose built track to race rallys. Any open lot, public park, or adjacent field next to a public business would do. This would open up many more possibilities to get R/C in the public eye.
Running on different types of terrain at the same time is cool too!!!! Dirt, grass, asphalt, stones, etc. There is always some nasty ruts, bumps, jumps, inclines and declines that could be incorporated into the course as well!
3. This form of racing is as close to just bashing and having fun as you can get. The always uncertain terrain always adds a large element of luck to do well, since there never is a good line around the course.
It just doesn't get any closer to "back to basics" than this....
4. Our rally race days are much shorter because like real rally, there is no practice on the course before your stage (heat). You just look at the course and make adjustments your as you go!
Scoring is different too....all of your stages are added together to determine a winner....Most laps in the least time wins....
Basically all I'm trying to say is that this may be an alternative to onroad sedan racing by adding a fun "offroad" element to it.
I don't want to say that onroad has run it's course (no pun intended...lol) but look what has happened when a new form of R/C racing has taken off....1/12th scale back in the late 80's, 1/10th pan oval in the 90's, then touring cars until now....
Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but wanted to share....
Yes, still a lot of good ideas/suggestions coming in, and there seems to be a common thread among the posters here that:
1. The cost of sedan racing and support equiptment is way too high.
2. Racing in "public settings" is the key to attracting new racers.
3. Everyone seems to remember how much fun it was when they first started racing.
4. The race days are too long.
5. Offroad is still going strong while Onroad continues to decline.
Thinking about these things has me wanting to share a class that we run here in South Jersey.....Rally!
I'm not expecting a ton of people to agree that this is the answer to cure all, but just wanted to put this out there for anyone interested:
1. When it comes to cost, these things are as cheap as you can get and there are very limited hop ups. Heck, there are only two tire compounds, soft and hard!
There are probably a billion older sedan chassis' laying around that can be easily coverted to a rally car!
2. You don't need a purpose built track to race rallys. Any open lot, public park, or adjacent field next to a public business would do. This would open up many more possibilities to get R/C in the public eye.
Running on different types of terrain at the same time is cool too!!!! Dirt, grass, asphalt, stones, etc. There is always some nasty ruts, bumps, jumps, inclines and declines that could be incorporated into the course as well!
3. This form of racing is as close to just bashing and having fun as you can get. The always uncertain terrain always adds a large element of luck to do well, since there never is a good line around the course.
It just doesn't get any closer to "back to basics" than this....
4. Our rally race days are much shorter because like real rally, there is no practice on the course before your stage (heat). You just look at the course and make adjustments your as you go!
Scoring is different too....all of your stages are added together to determine a winner....Most laps in the least time wins....
Basically all I'm trying to say is that this may be an alternative to onroad sedan racing by adding a fun "offroad" element to it.
I don't want to say that onroad has run it's course (no pun intended...lol) but look what has happened when a new form of R/C racing has taken off....1/12th scale back in the late 80's, 1/10th pan oval in the 90's, then touring cars until now....
Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but wanted to share....
11-16-2006, 02:02 PM
#104
Originally Posted by FreqETag
No problem, I want people to know I am serious about this and have nothing to hide. The people that get involved will be the same.
Maybe you'd be interested?
Maybe you'd be interested?
I'll continue to support this effort any way I can, online, to help the cause....
Keep fighting the good fight.....
11-16-2006, 02:29 PM
#105
Ray Murray: That is some awesome looking racing. I think that the benefit with this style is that it incorporates every aspect of racing. You get offroad, onroad, and (I'm sure) the newest R/C excitement in drifting. Pretty inexpensive to maintain the track also. Throw down some sand, kill the grass and go have a good time.