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Old 12-23-2023 | 12:46 PM
  #31  
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You could always go buy ten of these, a bit of plywood, coloured electrical tape, some cones with numbers on them, a stop watch and clipboard, and do it 80's style?
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Old 12-23-2023 | 01:55 PM
  #32  
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Nobody that’s written a parser for AMB’s P3 protocol would ever describe them as innovative.
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Old 12-24-2023 | 03:03 AM
  #33  
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Mylaps and Bervoets (yep, the dutch guy who created Serpent with Ron Ton, the Ber in Berton...) deserve their success. Their lapcounting system was breakthrough. I have 4 AMB including one from the very first generation, and once you figure out how to change the leads especially on the transponder side, they last forever

I will admit I also have 2 mrt clones - the reason I bought them is because of absence of retro compatibility of the originals early transponders with the new loops. The newer loops don't see the old transponders... And that p!ssed me off. If I can't trust the original brand, then why would I bother... And the clubs are a set or making it a point to not upgrade the firmware....


​​​​​​I'm grateful to AMB/mylaps, still I think they started acting a bit too greedy at some point.

In a non-niche RC world, anti-trust authorities would step in btw.

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Old 12-24-2023 | 10:55 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by LowDrag
We use the Orange Lap Rc transponders at our track and they’re only $25 a pop. Which seems realistic given what they are and how many you could get made on a panel. Mylaps just pots the same thing in a 2cent plastic case and marks it up $100. Given how much we want more people to enter the hobby, shouldn’t the RC community be pushing for the Orange Lap version instead?
This is very much not the case. The Orange Lap system is a cheap IR system vs Mylaps which is a radio transponder system.
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Old 12-26-2023 | 08:10 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Lonestar
Mylaps and Bervoets (yep, the dutch guy who created Serpent with Ron Ton, the Ber in Berton...) deserve their success. Their lapcounting system was breakthrough. I have 4 AMB including one from the very first generation, and once you figure out how to change the leads especially on the transponder side, they last forever

I will admit I also have 2 mrt clones - the reason I bought them is because of absence of retro compatibility of the originals early transponders with the new loops. The newer loops don't see the old transponders... And that p!ssed me off. If I can't trust the original brand, then why would I bother... And the clubs are a set or making it a point to not upgrade the firmware....


​​​​​​I'm grateful to AMB/mylaps, still I think they started acting a bit too greedy at some point.

In a non-niche RC world, anti-trust authorities would step in btw.
Mylaps literally is used to time everything now. 40 years ago we used to manually time and score real race cars. It took teams of people with clip boards and stop watches. Now 1 person can time and score an entire event. All tech from grass roots RC car racing.

We mentioned price a lot but because the system foundation was the hobby industry the systems they offered to the motorsports industry were actually competitively priced. You had $200 transponders and $10K systems for tracks.
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Old 12-26-2023 | 11:44 AM
  #36  
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Yes, Mylaps is a total rip-off at $110-130 ea. Entry level into this sport is $170for a Euro truck , And to race the newbie has
to shell out another $120 for a chip that goes "beep"

I-laps transponders are $25 ea.
Timing gate & USB interface is another $300 total .
Livetime software is $40-mo subscription to the track/club
We used the system for a year with no issues.
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Old 12-26-2023 | 11:53 AM
  #37  
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Here you go. Now you can make your own and it should even work with RC4.

def calculate_checksum(data):
checksum = 0
for byte in data:
checksum = (checksum + byte) & 0xFFFFFFFF # Ensure 32-bit overflow
return checksum

# Example data from your message (excluding the 8e and 8f markers)
data = [
0x02, 0x33, 0x00, 0xcf, 0x02, 0x00, 0x00, 0x01,
0x00, 0x01, 0x04, 0xb2, 0x9b, 0x01, 0x00, 0x03,
0x04, 0x27, 0xfc, 0x70, 0x00, 0x04, 0x08, 0xe8,
0x19, 0xe6, 0xbd, 0x8a, 0x75, 0x04, 0x00, 0x05,
0x02, 0x33, 0x00, 0x06, 0x02, 0x10, 0x00, 0x08,
0x02, 0x00, 0x00, 0x81, 0x04, 0xfc, 0x05, 0x04,
0x00, 0x8f
]

# Calculate checksum
checksum_value = calculate_checksum(data)
print(f"Checksum: {checksum_value:X}")
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Old 12-26-2023 | 11:58 AM
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Listener code for the AMBdecoder.
Code:
using System;
using System.IO;
using System.Collections;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;
using System.Text;
using System.Net.Sockets;

namespace AMBListener
{
	class AMBListener
	{
		public static void Connect(String server, Int32 port, String message)
		{
			Console.WriteLine("nStarting AMBListener...");
			while (true)
			{
				try
				{
					// Create a TcpClient.
					// Note, for this client to work you need to have a TcpServer 
					// connected to the same address as specified by the server, port
					// combination.
					TcpClient client = new TcpClient(server, port);

					// Translate the passed message into ASCII and store it as a Byte array.
					Byte[] data = System.Text.Encoding.ASCII.GetBytes(message);

					// Get a client stream for reading and writing.
					//  Stream stream = client.GetStream();

					NetworkStream stream = client.GetStream();
					stream.ReadTimeout = 10000;
					stream.WriteTimeout = 10000;


					// Send the message to the connected TcpServer. 
					stream.Write(data, 0, data.Length);

					// Receive the TcpServer.response.
					while (client.Connected)
					{
						// Buffer to store the response bytes.
						data = new Byte[256];

						// String to store the response ASCII representation.
						String responseData = String.Empty;

						// Read the first batch of the TcpServer response bytes.
						Int32 bytes = stream.Read(data, 0, data.Length);
						responseData = System.Text.Encoding.ASCII.GetString(data, 0, bytes);

						// Write hexdump to console for debugging.....
						string str = "";
						for (int index = 0; index < bytes; index++)
						{
							str += String.Format("{0:x2} ", data[index]);
						}
						Console.WriteLine(str);
					}

					// Close everything.
					client.Close();
				}
				catch (ArgumentNullException e)
				{
					Console.WriteLine(String.Format("ArgumentNullException: {0}", e));
				}
				catch (SocketException e)
				{
					// This Exception has to be active but content commented out, otherwise it will be many, many errormessages.....
					Console.WriteLine(String.Format("SocketException: {0}", e));
				}
				catch (IOException e)
				{
					// This Exception has to be active but content commented out, otherwise it will be many, many errormessages.....
					Console.WriteLine(String.Format("IOException: {0}", e));
				}
				catch (Exception e)
				{
					Console.WriteLine(String.Format("Exception: {0}", e));
				}

				//Console.WriteLine(String.Format("n Restarting AMBListener..."));
				//Console.WriteLine(String.Format("n Press Enter to continue..."));
				//Console.Read();
			}
		}

	}
}
Code:
Code:
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// File: Program.cs
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// When this sample Windows Console Application code in C# is run
// the AMBListener will start a Console Windows 
// and start displaying continues messages from AMB Decoder
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;
using System.Text;

namespace AMBListener
{
	class Program
	{
		static void Main(string[] args)
		{
			// You will probably need to adjust IPAddress and portnumber for this to work
			string IPAddressToDecoder = "192.168.0.1";
			int IPPortForListeingToDecoder = 5403;
			string MessageToDecoder = "This is a a Hello message sent to AMB Decoder!";
			AMBListener.Connect(IPAddressToDecoder, IPPortForListeingToDecoder, MessageToDecoder);
		}
	}
}
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Old 12-26-2023 | 01:51 PM
  #39  
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For those that don't know how to read code, the first snippet calculates the most rudimentary of checksums. The second sends a string to an IP address and prints the response to a debug console and then disconnects without doing anything. The third calls the second snippet with a basic "hello world" string sending it to a typical default router address.

None of the above will be sufficient to implement a transponder and decoder system.
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Old 12-26-2023 | 02:04 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
For those that don't know how to read code, the first snippet calculates the most rudimentary of checksums. The second sends a string to an IP address and prints the response to a debug console and then disconnects without doing anything. The third calls the second snippet with a basic "hello world" string sending it to a typical default router address.

None of the above will be sufficient to implement a transponder and decoder system.
It's not there for implementation, it is there as a starting point.
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Old 12-26-2023 | 02:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Metalsoft
It's not there for implementation, it is there as a starting point.
Not only is it not useful as a starting point (looks more like the start of a system to connect to the decoder, not an implementation of a decoder), you literally said this:
Here you go. Now you can make your own and it should even work with RC4.
Can't make your own with this and there's nothing here that'll help with the RC4 specifics.
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Old 12-27-2023 | 12:45 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by DirkW
Sorry, no conspiracy to be found here . I have zero connections with them, I'm not even a very happy customer. But I can look beyond just my own horizons and think about more than just "me, me, me!" Mylaps are a company and for them (like any other company) this is a business, not a hobby - and they are in it to make money (they have employees that need to eat, pay rent, feed their families, etc.). That's how our western capitalist system works - for good and for bad. It's not exactly their fault that they don't have competition on the market, is it? Plus, I'm not a hypocrite, so when it pisses me off (and it does!) when e.g. Chinese companies produce cheap (and mostly crappy) blatant copies of what western companies have invented and designed, regardless of copyrights and patents, I cannot turn around and say "Oh but it's different with Mylaps - there I support such a thing, because it makes my otherwise very expensive hobby slightly cheaper!" Sorry, no can do. Do I wish their products were cheaper? Of course! But I cannot dictate it to them.

And again, even at current prices, these transponders are IMHO only a rather minor cost compared to the rest of the equipment you need to race (and to keep racing!) that I don't see what the big problem is. Please think honestly about what you are ready and willing to pay for other electronics, the stock class motor of the month, all the tires, the bodies (depending on class)... and how much of these perish so quickly or can only be used in one class or one type of vehicle, while the single transponder you actually need is universal and will usually outlive them all. Yes, we all wish this hobby was cheaper, but that goes for every single component and all companies, not just Mylaps and their transponders!

Yes, of course competition is a good thing. So let other companies do their own complete products (without patent or copyright infringement) and then it'll be a fair competition. Because when the tech is apparently so simple, old and proven, how come no other company has ever done a serious effort to produce such a (complete!) system of their own (i.e. incl. a decoder!) in all these years? Should be a gold mine, right? With all those unhappy people that want to spend less money... There should be enough engineers out there that could do it, too - it's only tech, not magic. But for some reason, all that has happened so far, was to rip off the cheap and simple part, the transponders. Apparently it's much harder to build a decoder, right? Or is it too expensive to do? For whatever reason, to my knowledge nobody else has successfully built and properly marketed a complete working decoder / timing system so far. If MRT really is finally working on a decoder as well, that's great news! And it's about time someone does, after all these years, no, decades - it's almost 2024 now. Problem is, it might be too late by now. Almost all current race tracks have a very expensive Mylaps system and are not likely to buy a new one, unless they'd need to replace a defective unit, or the new system was much better (no idea what improvement that might be - after all, the Mylaps system does a good job) - but would a better system be necessarily cheaper?
I don’t think the issue here is stealing as the Chinese do, it’s more about monopoly, competition and compatibility.

Imagine if the only radio we could use was Sanwa.. that they owned the spreadspectrum signal and only sanwa receivers and servos could be used. The price for their systems will be very high and they would have no incentive to perhaps provide an entry level model.

This essentially is my laps. They have a closed system and MRT reverse engineered a device to work with it, and became the only competition. Mylaps updated their system to shut them out so there’s no competition. They also know very well. It’s not feasible for a track to have multiple timing systems so they have a monopoly on the market, and can command $100+ for a device that cost pennies to make.

I too heard MRT is making their own, unless it accepts my laps RC4 transponder's, it will be tough for it to get off the ground


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Old 12-27-2023 | 01:29 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Raman
I don’t think the issue here is stealing as the Chinese do, it’s more about monopoly, competition and compatibility.

Imagine if the only radio we could use was Sanwa.. that they owned the spreadspectrum signal and only sanwa receivers and servos could be used. The price for their systems will be very high and they would have no incentive to perhaps provide an entry level model.

This essentially is my laps. They have a closed system and MRT reverse engineered a device to work with it, and became the only competition. Mylaps updated their system to shut them out so there’s no competition. They also know very well. It’s not feasible for a track to have multiple timing systems so they have a monopoly on the market, and can command $100+ for a device that cost pennies to make.

I too heard MRT is making their own, unless it accepts my laps RC4 transponder's, it will be tough for it to get off the ground
I find it slightly ironic that some complain about a single$100 piece of equipment, that is effectively the “ticket” to participate in racing their $300 to $900 rc car.
Technically, it’s the cost of participation in organized racing. And you only need to pay it once per car. Average out per use, and the cost becomes insignificant.
Maybe some are forgetting the overall cost of the complete integrated system of software, loop, decoder, etc. How much is that?
That cost is almost entirely absorbed by the club or track facility. Where are the complaints about that?
I think some are taking for granted a system that works near flawlessly, keeps data accurately, times precisely, and helps organize so many people at so many events.
From that perspective, I’m thankful I only have to pay $100 to have the privilege of this technology and reliability.
I Use to race at a track where an employee had to hit number keys as cars wizzed by. Then a track where you were a numbskull if you forgot to put the transponder, the size of a micro servo, back in it charging dock after your heat. When personal transponders came out, it was glorious. I think complaining about what we have now is ignorant of how far it’s come and how good we have it.
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Old 12-27-2023 | 01:38 PM
  #44  
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It’s great you think complaining about the technology we have available to us is ignorant. I’m pretty sure that’s not at all the objective of this entire thread. Did you read, or did you really just HAVE to share your unrelated opinion and you chose this particular thread at random to accomplish your mission?
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Old 12-27-2023 | 02:10 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by simple
Maybe some are forgetting the overall cost of the complete integrated system of software, loop, decoder, etc. How much is that?
Loop, roughly $200 depending on length.
Decoder, several grand.
Software, LiveTime is $30-$40 a month.
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