295LikesTamiya mini cooper
09-05-2017 | 08:25 PM
I've only ever seen kickup used to refer to the front hinge pins, and that link you posted also only refers to the front hinge pins.
The same guide says this about anti-squat
RC Suspension Tuning Guide ? Anti Squat/
They refer to it as the angle of the rear hinge pins.
I can see why you'd object to it being used to prevent squat on this car, but the term anti-squat is commonly used to describe the angle of the rear hinge pins.
The same guide says this about anti-squat
RC Suspension Tuning Guide ? Anti Squat/
They refer to it as the angle of the rear hinge pins.
I can see why you'd object to it being used to prevent squat on this car, but the term anti-squat is commonly used to describe the angle of the rear hinge pins.
I've never heard the term before, but since we are talking about Tamiya Minis, if Tamiya wants to call it "skid angle", then that's what I'll do.
Last edited by howardcano; 09-05-2017 at 08:37 PM.
09-05-2017 | 09:00 PM
). When sosidge suggested it meant anti-squat, everyone seemed (to me) to know that it meant hinge pin angles.Tamiya uses "interesting" terms all the time. For example, they claim part 54765 gives 5 degrees caster, when it's really giving 5 degrees of kickup (also resulting in 5 degrees caster since the C hubs are 0 degrees). If they eventually give us new C hubs with varying degrees, which wouldn't surprise me since we're already getting rear skid angle adjustments, then their 5 degree caster description of that part will no longer be accurate. We're not even sure why they bothered quoting the angle since they've never quoted it on the plastic parts and older cars before. Another term that has annoyed many people is their shock "preload adjustment" for adjusting ride height. You don't actually want your springs preloaded.
09-06-2017 | 04:46 AM
Sure, but when I hear skid angle, I think of drifting rather than hinge pin angles. The fact that we're having this conversation about what they're actually referring to suggests that skid angle isn't a commonly known term (even if it may technically be more accurate that anti squat in this case ). When sosidge suggested it meant anti-squat, everyone seemed (to me) to know that it meant hinge pin angles.
Tamiya uses "interesting" terms all the time. For example, they claim part 54765 gives 5 degrees caster, when it's really giving 5 degrees of kickup (also resulting in 5 degrees caster since the C hubs are 0 degrees). If they eventually give us new C hubs with varying degrees, which wouldn't surprise me since we're already getting rear skid angle adjustments, then their 5 degree caster description of that part will no longer be accurate. We're not even sure why they bothered quoting the angle since they've never quoted it on the plastic parts and older cars before. Another term that has annoyed many people is their shock "preload adjustment" for adjusting ride height. You don't actually want your springs preloaded.
). When sosidge suggested it meant anti-squat, everyone seemed (to me) to know that it meant hinge pin angles.Tamiya uses "interesting" terms all the time. For example, they claim part 54765 gives 5 degrees caster, when it's really giving 5 degrees of kickup (also resulting in 5 degrees caster since the C hubs are 0 degrees). If they eventually give us new C hubs with varying degrees, which wouldn't surprise me since we're already getting rear skid angle adjustments, then their 5 degree caster description of that part will no longer be accurate. We're not even sure why they bothered quoting the angle since they've never quoted it on the plastic parts and older cars before. Another term that has annoyed many people is their shock "preload adjustment" for adjusting ride height. You don't actually want your springs preloaded.
09-06-2017 | 04:47 AM
Careful, there! I know what you are saying, but stiffer springs won't reduce the weight transfer; they only reduce the squat.
09-06-2017 | 07:05 AM
Tech Fanatic
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 946
From: Finland
I've got both the 05 R and the 07. The 07 feels much nicer to drive, but it's not translating into better laptimes yet. I'm still a bit quicker with my 05. I'm sure the 07 has more to give, it's still at pure box stock setup. I've had to add an oil gear diff to the 05 to get it competitive though (not sure if that's legal where you race), so value wise I'd go for the 07. The 05 also handled like crap out of the box, it took some time to break in (with no setup changes).
If 210mm bodies are your thing, get the 05 R. You can always get an 07 down the line (they're not that expensive) if they do eventually start to pull ahead of the competition, and transfer some of the nice parts over from the 05 (such as the alloy shock bodies).
If 210mm bodies are your thing, get the 05 R. You can always get an 07 down the line (they're not that expensive) if they do eventually start to pull ahead of the competition, and transfer some of the nice parts over from the 05 (such as the alloy shock bodies).
09-06-2017 | 10:39 AM
Well, as mentioned, net effect. I'm going with FWD drag racing theory - Get rid of rear squat to keep the front planted. Awesome in a straight line!
09-06-2017 | 02:28 PM
Tech Fanatic
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 946
From: Finland
Well that throws a proverbial spanner in the works. A 210mm M-07 would probably be worth holding out for. Though since it'll be available whenever, it'd mean missing out on a couple of races at least (well, then again that is not to say I'd necessarily have an M-05-based car ready in time for those either due to financial stuff) 
09-06-2017 | 03:02 PM
Yes, the car still squats under acceleration. However, anti-squat, which is an arrangement of the suspension that uses the forces from the tire patch being pushed forward by the motor when accelerating, is useless on the rear end of a front-wheel-drive car, since there is no force pushing the tire patch forward.
Squat is not a product of having the rear wheels being driven. Acceleration plays the big role there. First off, the weight of the car pushes down on the rear suspension at all times (giving static ride height). When the car is accelerating, the CoG (being above the inner hingepin height) pushes the rear suspension down further (squat) in a pendulum motion around the C0G.
The benefit of arranging the inner hingepins in an anti-squat arrangement is to affect weight transfer, both on acceleration and upon deceleration, granted FWD don't get as much of the deceleration effect as 4WD. The movement of the tire patch in relation to the chassis is so minuscule as to be negligible in regards to the effect of changes in wheelbase.
09-06-2017 | 03:16 PM
Well that throws a proverbial spanner in the works. A 210mm M-07 would probably be worth holding out for. Though since it'll be available whenever, it'd mean missing out on a couple of races at least (well, then again that is not to say I'd necessarily have an M-05-based car ready in time for those either due to financial stuff)
09-06-2017 | 03:43 PM
Fake, errr...custom. I figured out where the pictures were taken. Hint, not Tamiya. Also figured out where to cut to achieve this. I still haven't figured out where the giant servo brace came from. It's actually structural and part of what's holding this together.
