Team Associated RC10B64 Thread
#2536
Started the build.
A few questions:
-The driveline seems to have a lot of drag, seems to be bearing grease/seals. Do they loosen up once they've been run? Might be worth cleaning and using lighter lube as I will be running on carpet.
-I saw people coating the shock towers in CA to help them last, is this common practice? Worth doing?
-Diff shimming is a challenge. I noticed that with all 8 shims supplied the diff can still move side to side in the gearbox, of course it won't easily once it's bolted together but still not limited by the shims/bearings installed. Anyone else found this? Don't want to preload the bearings too much but seems like a few more shims wouldn't hurt.
-When building the diffs, the outdrives use 3 shims behind the sun gear pin. This doesn't take up all the play in the shaft nor does it firmly seal the oring to the outer side of the case/cover. Anyone added shims here? Just wonder if adding shims will bind the internal diff gears. May try it next time the diffs are out.
A few questions:
-The driveline seems to have a lot of drag, seems to be bearing grease/seals. Do they loosen up once they've been run? Might be worth cleaning and using lighter lube as I will be running on carpet.
-I saw people coating the shock towers in CA to help them last, is this common practice? Worth doing?
-Diff shimming is a challenge. I noticed that with all 8 shims supplied the diff can still move side to side in the gearbox, of course it won't easily once it's bolted together but still not limited by the shims/bearings installed. Anyone else found this? Don't want to preload the bearings too much but seems like a few more shims wouldn't hurt.
-When building the diffs, the outdrives use 3 shims behind the sun gear pin. This doesn't take up all the play in the shaft nor does it firmly seal the oring to the outer side of the case/cover. Anyone added shims here? Just wonder if adding shims will bind the internal diff gears. May try it next time the diffs are out.
#2538
Tech Initiate
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 35
From: Los Lunas NM
#2539
I asked this a while ago but never got any good replies but maybe someone else would have a similar issue or a nice solution.
A few of us here are having our cars running extremely hot(mine with a fan gets 180F and 3 other people are hitting over 200F without fans). I would be fine with those temps but I am getting massive motor fade and burning up rather expensive motors. I went though and completely tore it down after running it for a about 2 months now. I did notice the temp issues started around the 5-6 race day and before it was fine.
What I have done and checked to make sure of since I have gotten the car rebuilt today.
-Cleaned all the bearings and checked for binding, everything is good and free in the drive train.
-Checked dogbones in center and CVA's for excessive wear/damage, all are good, just a bit dirty with the exception of the front center dog bone have a decent amount of wear on the pins, the rear is much better with only minor wear.
- Checked ring/pinion mesh. I did find some interesting things going on here. I checked the gears for any excessive wear or weirdness. I noticed that the pinion gear has a lot of slop in it, it would move back and forth which changes the gear mesh and is bad. Normally you use the pinion to adjust the contact patch on the ring gear, and the side to side to adjust the gear mesh(the B44 had both adjustments which was nice). I put some extra shims on that on the outside(G clip side) to remove that play. Anyone else notice this? I also rechecked the diffs for shimming and making sure that there is no slop and a tick of play and no binding from too many shims. I learned how to build these on the B44 from Lewis Cavalieri(he used to build or wrench on almost all of Ryan's cars for many years and knows how to do it), it is time consuming but the correct way to do it and I will bet one person is going to be serious and say to check shimming and not read this much into what I am saying. I have also tried a few different geases and oils to see if that makes a difference and nothing so far(used black grease, a tacky red grease and a molybdenum disulfide grease).
- Changed motors. I tried a few motors and all ran extremely hot, outside on larger tracks it is fair since it is 90F ambient but I am getting this on a smaller track as well on all motors that is A/C to 72F. This is happening to 3-4 people I know running a bunch of motors/speed controllers. I am using an old SSX TC Spec that does not have timing, and the motors I am using are the Orion Light weight motors that dont have timing(tried a 6.5, 8.5 and a Novak Ballistic motor as well in 7.5 and 10.5 with the same results). The other speed controllers are Orion, Reedy and Tekin with my friends using a bunch of motors same as I have.
- I have cut some cooling holes in the body(the scoops and some in the front and back) just to make sure. I have also tried a clip on heatsink to see if that helped at all and nothing.
- Changed gearing a bunch, went from a 17t to a 25t pinion to see if that mattered and same thing, extremely hot.
I am not sure what else to try or do. I ran all these electronics in my old B44.3 without any issues(and that car weighed more since it had a saddle pack vs this that is a shorty). Car runs good and all that other then the temps that are causing motor fade and damaging them in the long run. Anyone having a similar experience?
A few of us here are having our cars running extremely hot(mine with a fan gets 180F and 3 other people are hitting over 200F without fans). I would be fine with those temps but I am getting massive motor fade and burning up rather expensive motors. I went though and completely tore it down after running it for a about 2 months now. I did notice the temp issues started around the 5-6 race day and before it was fine.
What I have done and checked to make sure of since I have gotten the car rebuilt today.
-Cleaned all the bearings and checked for binding, everything is good and free in the drive train.
-Checked dogbones in center and CVA's for excessive wear/damage, all are good, just a bit dirty with the exception of the front center dog bone have a decent amount of wear on the pins, the rear is much better with only minor wear.
- Checked ring/pinion mesh. I did find some interesting things going on here. I checked the gears for any excessive wear or weirdness. I noticed that the pinion gear has a lot of slop in it, it would move back and forth which changes the gear mesh and is bad. Normally you use the pinion to adjust the contact patch on the ring gear, and the side to side to adjust the gear mesh(the B44 had both adjustments which was nice). I put some extra shims on that on the outside(G clip side) to remove that play. Anyone else notice this? I also rechecked the diffs for shimming and making sure that there is no slop and a tick of play and no binding from too many shims. I learned how to build these on the B44 from Lewis Cavalieri(he used to build or wrench on almost all of Ryan's cars for many years and knows how to do it), it is time consuming but the correct way to do it and I will bet one person is going to be serious and say to check shimming and not read this much into what I am saying. I have also tried a few different geases and oils to see if that makes a difference and nothing so far(used black grease, a tacky red grease and a molybdenum disulfide grease).
- Changed motors. I tried a few motors and all ran extremely hot, outside on larger tracks it is fair since it is 90F ambient but I am getting this on a smaller track as well on all motors that is A/C to 72F. This is happening to 3-4 people I know running a bunch of motors/speed controllers. I am using an old SSX TC Spec that does not have timing, and the motors I am using are the Orion Light weight motors that dont have timing(tried a 6.5, 8.5 and a Novak Ballistic motor as well in 7.5 and 10.5 with the same results). The other speed controllers are Orion, Reedy and Tekin with my friends using a bunch of motors same as I have.
- I have cut some cooling holes in the body(the scoops and some in the front and back) just to make sure. I have also tried a clip on heatsink to see if that helped at all and nothing.
- Changed gearing a bunch, went from a 17t to a 25t pinion to see if that mattered and same thing, extremely hot.
I am not sure what else to try or do. I ran all these electronics in my old B44.3 without any issues(and that car weighed more since it had a saddle pack vs this that is a shorty). Car runs good and all that other then the temps that are causing motor fade and damaging them in the long run. Anyone having a similar experience?
#2540
How are you setting your lash on the motor pinion? The easiest way to do it on any
car that you can remove it with the lash set is to install one 2 teeth larger than what
you want to use, push it down firm against the spur and tighten. Then remove and
replace it with the one you want to use.
car that you can remove it with the lash set is to install one 2 teeth larger than what
you want to use, push it down firm against the spur and tighten. Then remove and
replace it with the one you want to use.
#2541
That is all good, not had any issues with that at all. There is something weird going on with the drive train is all I can think of. What is odd is that it is not just my car, but a bunch of people I know.
#2542
You doesn't precise how much running time.
I suppose it's for a 5min run.
I got the same trouble with mine; i do everything like you with no good results since I change my speedo ... no more problems since then.
140°F after a 5min run without fan, ambient t° around 80°F.
I suppose it's for a 5min run.
I got the same trouble with mine; i do everything like you with no good results since I change my speedo ... no more problems since then.
140°F after a 5min run without fan, ambient t° around 80°F.
#2544
I get motor fade and those temps after 2-3 mins so I cant make it a full 5 min race without it getting too hot.
I did think it was speedo related but a lot of people are having it. You changed your speed controller and the temps went down?
What is the difference between the diff gears? I heard that there is new ones but nothing more then there is new ones?
I did think it was speedo related but a lot of people are having it. You changed your speed controller and the temps went down?
What is the difference between the diff gears? I heard that there is new ones but nothing more then there is new ones?
#2545
Tech Initiate
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 35
From: Los Lunas NM
On page 164 second post down there is a picture comparing the new vs old ring gears. May sound silly but is your spur gear round? Is there a consistent mesh with the pinion all the way around or does it get tighter in spots?
#2547
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,717
From: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
If you noticed the front dogbone is noticeably more worn than the rear, it sounds like the center diff is unloading to the front on power. Bleeding power through a loose center diff is quick way to overheat a motor. What oil are you using? Between the outside temperature and (possible) consistent diffing out, you might have to really bump up the thickness to get the same diff action as those of us in cooler climates.
#2548
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,717
From: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
Also, try running a sensored motor with the Tekin RSX or other speed control that lets you start in sensored mode at low rpm and switches to sensorless. Sensorless operation can be more efficient and reduce the overall temp.
#2549
I actually found them, took me a while of digging to find it but I am going to order them today.
The spur gear is slightly out of round but I learned to always check everywhere and set it correct on the tightest place so there is no binding there.
Sensor cable is fine, my SSX wont physically work without it and will just blink at me if one pin is missing or not working right.
The front dog bones are wearing because the pinion input is pointed at the chassis since it is the same as the rear and doesnt take into account for the front kickup. I am running 200K in the center and it is diffing out but the wear is caused by having a weird angle down that is causing the pins to be sliding a lot in the drive cup.
I dont have a Tekin speedo so I cant do that.
The spur gear is slightly out of round but I learned to always check everywhere and set it correct on the tightest place so there is no binding there.
Sensor cable is fine, my SSX wont physically work without it and will just blink at me if one pin is missing or not working right.
The front dog bones are wearing because the pinion input is pointed at the chassis since it is the same as the rear and doesnt take into account for the front kickup. I am running 200K in the center and it is diffing out but the wear is caused by having a weird angle down that is causing the pins to be sliding a lot in the drive cup.
I dont have a Tekin speedo so I cant do that.
#2550
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,717
From: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
I actually found them, took me a while of digging to find it but I am going to order them today.
The spur gear is slightly out of round but I learned to always check everywhere and set it correct on the tightest place so there is no binding there.
Sensor cable is fine, my SSX wont physically work without it and will just blink at me if one pin is missing or not working right.
The front dog bones are wearing because the pinion input is pointed at the chassis since it is the same as the rear and doesnt take into account for the front kickup. I am running 200K in the center and it is diffing out but the wear is caused by having a weird angle down that is causing the pins to be sliding a lot in the drive cup.
I dont have a Tekin speedo so I cant do that.
The spur gear is slightly out of round but I learned to always check everywhere and set it correct on the tightest place so there is no binding there.
Sensor cable is fine, my SSX wont physically work without it and will just blink at me if one pin is missing or not working right.
The front dog bones are wearing because the pinion input is pointed at the chassis since it is the same as the rear and doesnt take into account for the front kickup. I am running 200K in the center and it is diffing out but the wear is caused by having a weird angle down that is causing the pins to be sliding a lot in the drive cup.
I dont have a Tekin speedo so I cant do that.
What is the exact timing you are running on your motor? Sorry if you already gave that info.





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