150LikesThe future of stock brushless motors?
02-21-2017, 10:57 AM
#16
ROAR is not considering this. It's a suggestion from racers at 360.
Over on the VTA/USGT threads there has been a lot of talk about having minimum resistance values for the coils. Right now only 25.5 motors have these regulations. A min resistance rule would have prevented the current short stack motors.
We need to address this because motor costs are getting out of control. RC is seeing a slight resurgence in participation, but a motor war could kill it.
And this years carpet nationals will be one for the ages. While sign ups are a little light, the host hotel is sold out!
Over on the VTA/USGT threads there has been a lot of talk about having minimum resistance values for the coils. Right now only 25.5 motors have these regulations. A min resistance rule would have prevented the current short stack motors.
We need to address this because motor costs are getting out of control. RC is seeing a slight resurgence in participation, but a motor war could kill it.
And this years carpet nationals will be one for the ages. While sign ups are a little light, the host hotel is sold out!
02-21-2017, 11:21 AM
#17
I agree, it looks like a decent turnout but they opened up stock spec classes to mod racers because they aren't getting the participation they want. There is a facebook post from them stating that. They also stated the possibility of dropping F1 and 235 Pan car due to low participation.
Nats entries typically come in late for whatever reason. With the amount of entries there are now, I would expect there will be 50+ stock tc at the race
02-21-2017, 12:05 PM
#18
The current pricing for TSR's new motor continues to be supported by the high demand. Until the demand diminishes, the price will probably stay in place. However, I think Paul/Motiv has done a good job at offering his latest and greatest at a substantially lower price and keeping the price in an acceptable range. In my opinion, getting his product to market so quickly behind that of TSR, it certainly has made its' impact in many ways, both to his company and what would have been potential TSR sales.
With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.
Just my opinion.....
With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.
Just my opinion.....
02-21-2017, 12:20 PM
#19
The current pricing for TSR's new motor continues to be supported by the high demand. Until the demand diminishes, the price will probably stay in place. However, I think Paul/Motiv has done a good job at offering his latest and greatest at a substantially lower price and keeping the price in an acceptable range. In my opinion, getting his product to market so quickly behind that of TSR, it certainly has made its' impact in many ways, both to his company and what would have been potential TSR sales.
With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.
Just my opinion.....
With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.
Just my opinion.....
Problem is those dollar signs kill stock racing IMO.
A decent car $200
Decent servo $30
Decent Radio $100
Decent Battery $40
Decent charger $50
Decent motor $100 - $150
You are just over $500 before you even buy the spec tires and body ( Using USGT as an example )
We don't want motor wars, ( I'm sure motiv, Reedy and TSR don't mind ) but it seems it is starting to reel it's ugly head.
Last edited by Metalsoft; 02-21-2017 at 12:40 PM.
02-21-2017, 01:24 PM
#21
Maybe a "BERT cap", 29 or more .....lol......
I have the v1 Fantom, and my car is pretty fast down the straight. Everywhere else, my driving is the issue, but I am working on it...
I have the v1 Fantom, and my car is pretty fast down the straight. Everywhere else, my driving is the issue, but I am working on it...
02-21-2017, 01:25 PM
#22
My point was this, previously off the shelf motors, Reedy M3's, Fantom, Motiv, Trinity 24k and other motors of this caliber, they ran you about $90....and in fact they still do right now at the largest on-line Hobby Shop. So, if you can buy the very latest, and fastest versions out there for a $95 TSR or a $105 Motiv, I'm not sure I see the problem.
In fact, for me, I had multiples (of the previous) versions of 17.5's in my pit box - Reedy M3, Motiv, and Fantom that I have been able to sell off and instead now I keep just 1ea of the newest versions from TSR. So instead of multiples, I now have one. I even made money on the whole thing and only worry about just one motor. I have done this with 17.5 and 21.5. I went from about 7 or 8 motors to just 2.
From the standpoint of using a Trackstar or similar costing brands, I understand your position.
I'm not a big fan of capping costs in most racing classes. For this simple reason, why would anyone see it necessary to eliminate a motor based on cost from 17.5, or even USGT when it's not a problem if someone can enter the class using an $800 chassis? Look, an $800 chassis is perfectly legal in USVTA, the most controlled of all classes. Certainly, has to make some racers using old Tamiya's or AE's scratch their head, huh? Many guys using older chassis' that are getting beat by Awesomatix chassis' are scratching their heads just as much as the guys with old motors vs ones with new motors. Right? But where is the uproar in this? There is a huge dollar difference in that scenario. Not so much with the motors.....
I say let this motor situation play out a bit more before making decisions about motors. Again, I have actually made money, cut down on the number of motors I have, and eliminated "which brand of motor" to use when I go race. I see it as a positive. Not all will, I understand that.
In fact, for me, I had multiples (of the previous) versions of 17.5's in my pit box - Reedy M3, Motiv, and Fantom that I have been able to sell off and instead now I keep just 1ea of the newest versions from TSR. So instead of multiples, I now have one. I even made money on the whole thing and only worry about just one motor. I have done this with 17.5 and 21.5. I went from about 7 or 8 motors to just 2.
From the standpoint of using a Trackstar or similar costing brands, I understand your position.
I'm not a big fan of capping costs in most racing classes. For this simple reason, why would anyone see it necessary to eliminate a motor based on cost from 17.5, or even USGT when it's not a problem if someone can enter the class using an $800 chassis? Look, an $800 chassis is perfectly legal in USVTA, the most controlled of all classes. Certainly, has to make some racers using old Tamiya's or AE's scratch their head, huh? Many guys using older chassis' that are getting beat by Awesomatix chassis' are scratching their heads just as much as the guys with old motors vs ones with new motors. Right? But where is the uproar in this? There is a huge dollar difference in that scenario. Not so much with the motors.....
I say let this motor situation play out a bit more before making decisions about motors. Again, I have actually made money, cut down on the number of motors I have, and eliminated "which brand of motor" to use when I go race. I see it as a positive. Not all will, I understand that.
02-21-2017, 01:34 PM
#23
Very good points...
My point was this, previously off the shelf motors, Reedy M3's, Fantom, Motiv, Trinity 24k and other motors of this caliber, they ran you about $90....and in fact they still do right now at the largest on-line Hobby Shop. So, if you can buy the very latest, and fastest versions out there for a $95 TSR or a $105 Motiv, I'm not sure I see the problem.
In fact, for me, I had multiples (of the previous) versions of 17.5's in my pit box - Reedy M3, Motiv, and Fantom that I have been able to sell off and instead now I keep just 1ea of the newest versions from TSR. So instead of multiples, I now have one. I even made money on the whole thing and only worry about just one motor. I have done this with 17.5 and 21.5. I went from about 7 or 8 motors to just 2.
From the standpoint of using a Trackstar or similar costing brands, I understand your position.
I'm not a big fan of capping costs in most racing classes. For this simple reason, why would anyone see it necessary to eliminate a motor based on cost from 17.5, or even USGT when it's not a problem if someone can enter the class using an $800 chassis? Look, an $800 chassis is perfectly legal in USVTA, the most controlled of all classes. Certainly, has to make some racers using old Tamiya's or AE's scratch their head, huh? Many guys using older chassis' that are getting beat by Awesomatix chassis' are scratching their heads just as much as the guys with old motors vs ones with new motors. Right? But where is the uproar in this? There is a huge dollar difference in that scenario. Not so much with the motors.....
I say let this motor situation play out a bit more before making decisions about motors. Again, I have actually made money, cut down on the number of motors I have, and eliminated "which brand of motor" to use when I go race. I see it as a positive. Not all will, I understand that.
In fact, for me, I had multiples (of the previous) versions of 17.5's in my pit box - Reedy M3, Motiv, and Fantom that I have been able to sell off and instead now I keep just 1ea of the newest versions from TSR. So instead of multiples, I now have one. I even made money on the whole thing and only worry about just one motor. I have done this with 17.5 and 21.5. I went from about 7 or 8 motors to just 2.
From the standpoint of using a Trackstar or similar costing brands, I understand your position.
I'm not a big fan of capping costs in most racing classes. For this simple reason, why would anyone see it necessary to eliminate a motor based on cost from 17.5, or even USGT when it's not a problem if someone can enter the class using an $800 chassis? Look, an $800 chassis is perfectly legal in USVTA, the most controlled of all classes. Certainly, has to make some racers using old Tamiya's or AE's scratch their head, huh? Many guys using older chassis' that are getting beat by Awesomatix chassis' are scratching their heads just as much as the guys with old motors vs ones with new motors. Right? But where is the uproar in this? There is a huge dollar difference in that scenario. Not so much with the motors.....
I say let this motor situation play out a bit more before making decisions about motors. Again, I have actually made money, cut down on the number of motors I have, and eliminated "which brand of motor" to use when I go race. I see it as a positive. Not all will, I understand that.
02-21-2017, 03:51 PM
#24
...I think ROAR is in enough trouble as it is. Look at the Carpet Nats...they aren't getting the participation. Why is it that we see these independent races like MHIC, SnowBirds, Hudy Race, Indoor Carpet Nats, Full Throttle Champs, etc. getting huge participation compared to ROAR national events?
What happened at snowbirds really doesn't have anything to do with ROAR. This is from snowbirds own rules on motors:
"We will have our own inductance/resistance minimums and have ranges for each motor winds/brands (based on what is available over-the-counter and what was sent to Roar/Tour for original approvals). Motors too low (what we feel are outliers) will not be allowed to race. These will be marked and held until event is over."
"We will have our own inductance/resistance minimums and have ranges for each motor winds/brands (based on what is available over-the-counter and what was sent to Roar/Tour for original approvals). Motors too low (what we feel are outliers) will not be allowed to race. These will be marked and held until event is over."
...With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.
Just my opinion.....
Just my opinion.....
The whole thing has turned upside down. The entry level classes cost the most and the Expert classes are the most economical.
02-21-2017, 04:02 PM
#25
Well the max msrp of a "stock" motor needs to be lowered, thats a ROAR issue.
02-21-2017, 05:46 PM
#27
But I agree with your sentiment that they shouldn't cost more than a modified motor.
