3LikesTamiya TRF415
01-04-2005, 12:04 PM
#6166
No problems with tweaking? But why would I, not sure what you mean by this.
If your planning to race the 415 on carpet, my suggestion would be to get the older 415, the LW suspension kit and the low friction belts. Bacically you now have the ability to run both carpet and asphalt.
The MS kit comes with the LW suspension which is not designed for carpet racing.
If your planning to race the 415 on carpet, my suggestion would be to get the older 415, the LW suspension kit and the low friction belts. Bacically you now have the ability to run both carpet and asphalt.
The MS kit comes with the LW suspension which is not designed for carpet racing.
01-04-2005, 12:22 PM
#6167
Tech Rookie
Alright I have a MS Kit. What do i have to buy to run the 415 older suspension? everything includeing part numbers or other options..
So far i do not like the dual oneways for carpet foam and it tweaks very easily from the 2.5mm chassis... but a setup just needs to be found also...
So far i do not like the dual oneways for carpet foam and it tweaks very easily from the 2.5mm chassis... but a setup just needs to be found also...
01-04-2005, 12:25 PM
#6168
Re: MS Parts...
Originally posted by Apex
So these MS Parts don't come in the MS kit?
I think these suspension bridges are even narrower than the current available suspension bridges.
So these MS Parts don't come in the MS kit?
I think these suspension bridges are even narrower than the current available suspension bridges.
it goes in order of narrowest to widest
XD XC XB XA X A B C D E
HIH
Ed
01-04-2005, 12:27 PM
#6169
I'd go online for a old 415 for sale. It may be cheaper than buying all the parts seperately. And it comes with a thicker chassis.
Not sure of all the part numbers needed but its a lot. New rear bearing, thicker chassis, universals, axles, arms, hub carriers, camber links, toe-in blocks....see what I mean.
Not sure of all the part numbers needed but its a lot. New rear bearing, thicker chassis, universals, axles, arms, hub carriers, camber links, toe-in blocks....see what I mean.
01-04-2005, 12:30 PM
#6171
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Giordano
[B]Apex: they do not come in the MS kit. I was hanging with Casey this past weekend and may make the 1/29 race at Mimi's.
Carl, Mimi's looks to be a good time were heading down there that Friday,I hear the nearest Applebee's is on you
Hope to see ya there
[B]Apex: they do not come in the MS kit. I was hanging with Casey this past weekend and may make the 1/29 race at Mimi's.
Carl, Mimi's looks to be a good time were heading down there that Friday,I hear the nearest Applebee's is on you
Hope to see ya there
01-04-2005, 12:42 PM
#6172
with the new narower toe blocks, i was wondering what the effect of narrowing the car would have, with both lwt susp and the normal susp?
thanks
stew
thanks
stew
01-04-2005, 12:53 PM
#6173
If you simply use narrow toe blocks without adjusting the overall width of the car, i.e. axle spacers to keep it at 190mm, you'll get tons of steering!!!!!! The narrower the car 188mm, 187mm and even 186mm yields a lot more steering and a loss of stability.
I can't see the benefit of using the narrower toe blocks and then adding spacers to the axles.
I run Parma foams with the stock toe blocks for the old 415 with the exception of the "A" bridge front block and the silver alum axle spacer. Its within 189mm-190 mm depending on the measuring gauge and how bent the rim is.
Some guys run the narrower blocks and then add the red or blue Tamiya wheel spacers to get back to 189-190mm. Makes no sense as now you have less of the rim resting on the alum wheel hex.
Perhaps I'm missing something?
I can't see the benefit of using the narrower toe blocks and then adding spacers to the axles.
I run Parma foams with the stock toe blocks for the old 415 with the exception of the "A" bridge front block and the silver alum axle spacer. Its within 189mm-190 mm depending on the measuring gauge and how bent the rim is.
Some guys run the narrower blocks and then add the red or blue Tamiya wheel spacers to get back to 189-190mm. Makes no sense as now you have less of the rim resting on the alum wheel hex.
Perhaps I'm missing something?
01-04-2005, 01:16 PM
#6174
Originally posted by Carl Giordano
Some guys run the narrower blocks and then add the red or blue Tamiya wheel spacers to get back to 189-190mm. Makes no sense as now you have less of the rim resting on the alum wheel hex.
Some guys run the narrower blocks and then add the red or blue Tamiya wheel spacers to get back to 189-190mm. Makes no sense as now you have less of the rim resting on the alum wheel hex.
I'm gonna try on thursday night reducing the rear width of the car, as well as playing with front shock position, which leads neatly into my next Q...
If I move the shocks out one hole on the tower (say, from hole 3 to 4), this effectively gives sharper turn-in, but with slightly less mid-turn grip? whereas if i were to move it in one (from 3 to 2) it would give more mid turn, but slower initial turn in?
So what would happen if I were to run the holes in one, but with a stiffer spring?
ARRGH shock positions have never been a strong point of mine....
thanks in advance
Ed
01-04-2005, 01:57 PM
#6175
Tryhard,
if you move the shocks out on the tower, it makes the spring 'harder', your creating more leverage as you go out on the shock tower. Someone did a great test while back, comparing spring rates as mounting on the shock tower went in and out. For example, at middle hole, with 20lbs spring, it's creating 20lbs leverage, move out one hole, and it creats 22lbs of leverage. All with same spring. So if you move out on the shock tower, you'll get less turn-in, since it's stiffer. So depending on the spring, if you went up 3lbs, but down in one hole, you might end up with same net result. (hope that made sense)
Carl, I'm running narrower toe blocks, then using spacers at the axles, 2 reasons for doing this. Using B/A in front, X/C in rear
1. Narrow the pivot point of the suspension. I feel car just reacts side to side better with narrowed inner mounts. Movement of fulcrum point on lower suspension (another whole can of worms)
2. Able to adjust track (width) of front and rear. It allows to run front wider, or rear wider/narrower, just by adding and removing spacers. Also, with 1.5mm worth of shims on the axles, it pushes the wheels out further from hub, allowing more tire turn in front with out rubbing the shocks, and able to run rear sway bar with out rubbing the mounts. I'm guessing 6mm hex does the same thing, but it doesn't allow for track adjustments.
Far as rim/hex issues, I'm using Parma foam/wheels, and hex on these things are deep, so no issues there.
if you move the shocks out on the tower, it makes the spring 'harder', your creating more leverage as you go out on the shock tower. Someone did a great test while back, comparing spring rates as mounting on the shock tower went in and out. For example, at middle hole, with 20lbs spring, it's creating 20lbs leverage, move out one hole, and it creats 22lbs of leverage. All with same spring. So if you move out on the shock tower, you'll get less turn-in, since it's stiffer. So depending on the spring, if you went up 3lbs, but down in one hole, you might end up with same net result. (hope that made sense)
Carl, I'm running narrower toe blocks, then using spacers at the axles, 2 reasons for doing this. Using B/A in front, X/C in rear
1. Narrow the pivot point of the suspension. I feel car just reacts side to side better with narrowed inner mounts. Movement of fulcrum point on lower suspension (another whole can of worms)
2. Able to adjust track (width) of front and rear. It allows to run front wider, or rear wider/narrower, just by adding and removing spacers. Also, with 1.5mm worth of shims on the axles, it pushes the wheels out further from hub, allowing more tire turn in front with out rubbing the shocks, and able to run rear sway bar with out rubbing the mounts. I'm guessing 6mm hex does the same thing, but it doesn't allow for track adjustments.
Far as rim/hex issues, I'm using Parma foam/wheels, and hex on these things are deep, so no issues there.
01-04-2005, 03:13 PM
#6176
Razzo, on the upper point it does stand the shock up making it stiffer, but it also transfers weight quicker side to side giving a harder turn-in.
On point 1 you are spot on. When we first got the 415 the D blocks made the car too stiff for roll with the wide hinge-pin. As the rear got narrower the car came alive then we started running the old 414 parts until Tamiya released the A-bridge.
Anyone ever looked at the original Tech car. The hinge pins are prolly about 2mm each inboard of the current A position. Where our diff towers are is about where the hinge pins are on the MY-02.
Carl you have to be careful on how much wheel spacing you are using also as it alters the scrub radius on the steering knuckle. I look at it this way if the car is loose add spacing @ the hub to widen track width. Think of the old Pontiac commercial "wider is better". The other side is if you have alot of spacing and the car is glued then start narrowing up the track width. You should find the laptimes dropping and the car feels freer through the middle of the turn.
Along these lines this is why the old suspension works better with Foam. The new arms allow the car to roll and really create traction due to the narrow pin location.
You also add too much hub spacing to clear the steering arm causing the scrub radius to go to hell also.
On point 1 you are spot on. When we first got the 415 the D blocks made the car too stiff for roll with the wide hinge-pin. As the rear got narrower the car came alive then we started running the old 414 parts until Tamiya released the A-bridge.
Anyone ever looked at the original Tech car. The hinge pins are prolly about 2mm each inboard of the current A position. Where our diff towers are is about where the hinge pins are on the MY-02.
Carl you have to be careful on how much wheel spacing you are using also as it alters the scrub radius on the steering knuckle. I look at it this way if the car is loose add spacing @ the hub to widen track width. Think of the old Pontiac commercial "wider is better". The other side is if you have alot of spacing and the car is glued then start narrowing up the track width. You should find the laptimes dropping and the car feels freer through the middle of the turn.
Along these lines this is why the old suspension works better with Foam. The new arms allow the car to roll and really create traction due to the narrow pin location.
You also add too much hub spacing to clear the steering arm causing the scrub radius to go to hell also.
01-04-2005, 05:20 PM
#6177
Jeff when did you go to the b/a in front and x/c in the rear? God, I gotta get to the track more often. 
01-04-2005, 05:44 PM
#6178
Tech Adept
hey guys need some help here....i know dat dis topic has been asked a few times but cant really find the ans...currently im running the ms kit and im having trouble with the front belst flipping....busted 3 front belts already...wat went wrong??hope u guys can help...thkxx...ps.im running the white belts with 1 notch tighter...
01-04-2005, 05:47 PM
#6179
Originally posted by Difuser
Razzo, on the upper point it does stand the shock up making it stiffer, but it also transfers weight quicker side to side giving a harder turn-in.
On point 1 you are spot on. When we first got the 415 the D blocks made the car too stiff for roll with the wide hinge-pin. As the rear got narrower the car came alive then we started running the old 414 parts until Tamiya released the A-bridge.
Anyone ever looked at the original Tech car. The hinge pins are prolly about 2mm each inboard of the current A position. Where our diff towers are is about where the hinge pins are on the MY-02.
Carl you have to be careful on how much wheel spacing you are using also as it alters the scrub radius on the steering knuckle. I look at it this way if the car is loose add spacing @ the hub to widen track width. Think of the old Pontiac commercial "wider is better". The other side is if you have alot of spacing and the car is glued then start narrowing up the track width. You should find the laptimes dropping and the car feels freer through the middle of the turn.
Along these lines this is why the old suspension works better with Foam. The new arms allow the car to roll and really create traction due to the narrow pin location.
You also add too much hub spacing to clear the steering arm causing the scrub radius to go to hell also.
Razzo, on the upper point it does stand the shock up making it stiffer, but it also transfers weight quicker side to side giving a harder turn-in.
On point 1 you are spot on. When we first got the 415 the D blocks made the car too stiff for roll with the wide hinge-pin. As the rear got narrower the car came alive then we started running the old 414 parts until Tamiya released the A-bridge.
Anyone ever looked at the original Tech car. The hinge pins are prolly about 2mm each inboard of the current A position. Where our diff towers are is about where the hinge pins are on the MY-02.
Carl you have to be careful on how much wheel spacing you are using also as it alters the scrub radius on the steering knuckle. I look at it this way if the car is loose add spacing @ the hub to widen track width. Think of the old Pontiac commercial "wider is better". The other side is if you have alot of spacing and the car is glued then start narrowing up the track width. You should find the laptimes dropping and the car feels freer through the middle of the turn.
Along these lines this is why the old suspension works better with Foam. The new arms allow the car to roll and really create traction due to the narrow pin location.
You also add too much hub spacing to clear the steering arm causing the scrub radius to go to hell also.
01-04-2005, 08:09 PM
#6180
Originally posted by Peter Busch
Jeff when did you go to the b/a in front and x/c in the rear? God, I gotta get to the track more often.
Jeff when did you go to the b/a in front and x/c in the rear? God, I gotta get to the track more often.
I think you might be the lone Tamiya driver this weekend, rest of us will be at Novak