Protoform Stratus 3.0
12-20-2004, 02:48 AM
#121
This is what I call SEXY body :
I wish somebody make these for RC cars.
I wish somebody make these for RC cars.
12-20-2004, 03:02 AM
#122
Yup its been done, for Mini-Zs 
12-20-2004, 03:27 AM
#123
Tech Apprentice
12-20-2004, 06:42 AM
#124
ROAR started down the right road with the 5-year limit on bodies but they need to follow up with strict enforcement of the letter of the rules (or change them, that's the opinion of most on this thread). Plus, the problem with the way they have worded the rule is that a minor change and an updated part number can be considered a whole new version and basically extends that body's life in the rulebook for another 5 years.
I appreciate Dale's commitment to competitiveness but IMO if the Stratus 3.0 is approved by ROAR races it's just a snowball effect of the various Alfa bodies out there, and the 1/12 bodies that have been mentioned too.
There should be something more than a subjective opinion to decide if a car is realistic or not, and those of you that agree, and you guys that think the ROAR 'real race car' rule should be scrapped - send a letter to ROAR and your regional rep with your current ROAR number. Start a thread saying you want to see some rule changes and include your ROAR number.
I appreciate Dale's commitment to competitiveness but IMO if the Stratus 3.0 is approved by ROAR races it's just a snowball effect of the various Alfa bodies out there, and the 1/12 bodies that have been mentioned too.
There should be something more than a subjective opinion to decide if a car is realistic or not, and those of you that agree, and you guys that think the ROAR 'real race car' rule should be scrapped - send a letter to ROAR and your regional rep with your current ROAR number. Start a thread saying you want to see some rule changes and include your ROAR number.
12-20-2004, 07:16 AM
#125
Frank, do you know if the stratus3 will be legal for the BIWS when its released?
12-20-2004, 07:58 AM
#126
Tech Addict
Sedan Bodies
The posting by "seamus0g" pretty much nailed it. Its refreshing to know there is someone out there that understands the dilema I face every time plan a new PROTOform project.
There's another aspect to this whole body issue that in recent years has become increasingly complicated - "LICENSING"
No longer can a guy like me or you look at racecar photos, or after watching a race on SPEED tv just say, "wow, that was a cool looking car that might work really well in 1/10th scale - I think I'll start working on one of those" (body styles)
Now, the first question is, " I wonder if I can get it licenced. ?? "
I'll give you a little 101 on how we got to be at this point in our industry. Back in 1991 General Motors was losing billions of dollars a year due to stiff competition - mainly from foreign auto makers. They were closing factories and dealerships and looking for ANY way to increase profits. Someone realized that Revell/Monogram was making a lot of money selling the little 1/24th plastic kits of GM cars and actually making more profit than the big guys. A licencing arrangement was forced on Revell/Monogram so GM would get their share of the profits. Instantly, the cost of a $6.50 model went up 70 cents. Essentially, it was easy "gravy" money for GM. Shortly after that the other US auto makers got wind of the "free money" and did the same thing. They weren't satisfied with just plastic model kits after that, everyone became fair game. they went after hats, t-shirts, belt buckles, bumpers stickers, beer mugs etc and yes, RC bodies. Back in 1992 (before I even got my company up and running) I was getting faxes and registered letters from Ford, Chev, Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile. They wanted cash and wanted it NOW.
Soon "outside" licensing firms (like sports agents) started representing the auto makers and also started representing the various NASCAR, Indy, GTP, TransAm etc teams and the companies that sponsor the cars. (Bud, Kellogs, Dupont etc) All of this seemed to coincide with the phenominal growth of the die-cast industry. In a matter of a couple of years companies like Action Performance (the largest of the die cast car companies) became a $400.000.000.00 (four hundred million) a year company. It was like a shark-feeding frenzy as more lawyers and more licencing firms dove into the souvenir/dicast/model/ AND YES - RC CAR market to get their "easy money". There is now an entire industry of "licensing firms" and "brand managers" that have corporate offices in some of the most exclusive hi-rise suites in america. Many of them are not able to differentiate between a small RC company and a die-cast corporate monster like Action Performance, so they are sometimes very difficult to deal with. (Greed tends to make people blind to the truth)
So, here's what we face in 2004:
A - Companies that want so much $ for a license agreement, that you simply can't afford to work out a deal.
B - Some companies have given "exclusives" to other companies.
eg. Ferrari and HotWheels as well as some DTM teams.
C - Some companies will only give a licence aggreement if the finalized body is virtually identicle to the real car ( in the same way that Tamiya does those beautiful truly scale bodies)
D - Companies who for reasons unknown, do not return phone calls, faxes, e-mails and do not respond to any correspondence.
eg. - Alfa. If this apperent "they don't seem to care" attitude is somehow interpreted as a "green light - I guess its ok to do this particular body style" there may be a hefty lawsuit awaiting your company down the road. These guys tend to play hardball.
I wrote this because I wanted all you guys to know why our choices as body manufacturers seems sometimes limited. Some of the most awsome body styles and race cars might never be done for 1/10th scale racing because of these circumstances. However, I am still always open to suggestions.
Merry Christmas - Dale Epp - PROTOform Race Bodies
There's another aspect to this whole body issue that in recent years has become increasingly complicated - "LICENSING"
No longer can a guy like me or you look at racecar photos, or after watching a race on SPEED tv just say, "wow, that was a cool looking car that might work really well in 1/10th scale - I think I'll start working on one of those" (body styles)
Now, the first question is, " I wonder if I can get it licenced. ?? "
I'll give you a little 101 on how we got to be at this point in our industry. Back in 1991 General Motors was losing billions of dollars a year due to stiff competition - mainly from foreign auto makers. They were closing factories and dealerships and looking for ANY way to increase profits. Someone realized that Revell/Monogram was making a lot of money selling the little 1/24th plastic kits of GM cars and actually making more profit than the big guys. A licencing arrangement was forced on Revell/Monogram so GM would get their share of the profits. Instantly, the cost of a $6.50 model went up 70 cents. Essentially, it was easy "gravy" money for GM. Shortly after that the other US auto makers got wind of the "free money" and did the same thing. They weren't satisfied with just plastic model kits after that, everyone became fair game. they went after hats, t-shirts, belt buckles, bumpers stickers, beer mugs etc and yes, RC bodies. Back in 1992 (before I even got my company up and running) I was getting faxes and registered letters from Ford, Chev, Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile. They wanted cash and wanted it NOW.
Soon "outside" licensing firms (like sports agents) started representing the auto makers and also started representing the various NASCAR, Indy, GTP, TransAm etc teams and the companies that sponsor the cars. (Bud, Kellogs, Dupont etc) All of this seemed to coincide with the phenominal growth of the die-cast industry. In a matter of a couple of years companies like Action Performance (the largest of the die cast car companies) became a $400.000.000.00 (four hundred million) a year company. It was like a shark-feeding frenzy as more lawyers and more licencing firms dove into the souvenir/dicast/model/ AND YES - RC CAR market to get their "easy money". There is now an entire industry of "licensing firms" and "brand managers" that have corporate offices in some of the most exclusive hi-rise suites in america. Many of them are not able to differentiate between a small RC company and a die-cast corporate monster like Action Performance, so they are sometimes very difficult to deal with. (Greed tends to make people blind to the truth)
So, here's what we face in 2004:
A - Companies that want so much $ for a license agreement, that you simply can't afford to work out a deal.
B - Some companies have given "exclusives" to other companies.
eg. Ferrari and HotWheels as well as some DTM teams.
C - Some companies will only give a licence aggreement if the finalized body is virtually identicle to the real car ( in the same way that Tamiya does those beautiful truly scale bodies)
D - Companies who for reasons unknown, do not return phone calls, faxes, e-mails and do not respond to any correspondence.
eg. - Alfa. If this apperent "they don't seem to care" attitude is somehow interpreted as a "green light - I guess its ok to do this particular body style" there may be a hefty lawsuit awaiting your company down the road. These guys tend to play hardball.
I wrote this because I wanted all you guys to know why our choices as body manufacturers seems sometimes limited. Some of the most awsome body styles and race cars might never be done for 1/10th scale racing because of these circumstances. However, I am still always open to suggestions.
Merry Christmas - Dale Epp - PROTOform Race Bodies
12-20-2004, 08:09 AM
#127
Originally posted by asw7576
I wish somebody make these for RC cars. [/B]
I wish somebody make these for RC cars. [/B]
12-20-2004, 08:35 AM
#128
Originally posted by raving-monkey
Frank, do you know if the stratus3 will be legal for the BIWS when its released?
Frank, do you know if the stratus3 will be legal for the BIWS when its released?
So - not a clear answer yet
12-20-2004, 08:39 AM
#129
Maybe it's time we get away from copying full size vehicles by name.... Let's face it, I was comparing my sister in law's Stratus to (sorry Dale) one of my Protoform Stratus bodies and you really need to look hard to see the resemblance... I was checking out a Mazda 6 on the road and the same holds true.... Car manufacturers have been copying each other's body styles for years and giving it a new name, time for us to do the same.... Sorry to the big auto makers, no more royalty money for you....
I really think the idea of running different style bodies for different classes is a good idea... Look at the real world... TC is pretty much stock (27 turn motors anyone?) GT is kinda stock, but they are performance cars (19 turn??) GTP is the big boys, all out HP, aerodynamics and performance (Low turn mods...) We could probably even equate it into Nitro by means of 2 speed and engine choice.... I think it'd be a lot more fun to watch and would give spectators a better show... Let's face it, to us we can sit and watch a day's worth of Mazda 6's race and pretty much figure out what class we are watching, Jon Q Public can't....
Touring Cars are still an extremely new class compared to everything out there.... I ran into some old RC mag's from around 92 and it's a huge change....
I really think the idea of running different style bodies for different classes is a good idea... Look at the real world... TC is pretty much stock (27 turn motors anyone?) GT is kinda stock, but they are performance cars (19 turn??) GTP is the big boys, all out HP, aerodynamics and performance (Low turn mods...) We could probably even equate it into Nitro by means of 2 speed and engine choice.... I think it'd be a lot more fun to watch and would give spectators a better show... Let's face it, to us we can sit and watch a day's worth of Mazda 6's race and pretty much figure out what class we are watching, Jon Q Public can't....
Touring Cars are still an extremely new class compared to everything out there.... I ran into some old RC mag's from around 92 and it's a huge change....
12-20-2004, 08:56 AM
#130
Originally posted by Frank McKinney
We haven't been scrutineering the bodies very much although there are some very illegal wings being run and the Mazda 6 has been used (which isn't BRCA legal and we're supposed to be using BRCA rules). At this point we are basically turning a blind eye to the bodies but I think we may be looking at the bodies a bit more in the future.
So - not a clear answer yet
We haven't been scrutineering the bodies very much although there are some very illegal wings being run and the Mazda 6 has been used (which isn't BRCA legal and we're supposed to be using BRCA rules). At this point we are basically turning a blind eye to the bodies but I think we may be looking at the bodies a bit more in the future.
So - not a clear answer yet
Are we able to use the mazda6 for the rest of the series? (i just got one painted up for me
)If not then i guess i will get the stratus2 back out
12-20-2004, 10:02 AM
#131
Tech Regular
WOW! I'm about agree with vtl1180ny!!
Although my time in RC racing is short compared to many, I think I need to agree that running bodies with names of vehicles they only have a passing resemblance to seems a bit ridiculous.
In fact I can't see the reasoning that the so-called "handling bodies" shouldn't be used.
Although my time in RC racing is short compared to many, I think I need to agree that running bodies with names of vehicles they only have a passing resemblance to seems a bit ridiculous.
In fact I can't see the reasoning that the so-called "handling bodies" shouldn't be used.
Originally posted by vtl1180ny
Maybe it's time we get away from copying full size vehicles by name.... Let's face it, I was comparing my sister in law's Stratus to (sorry Dale) one of my Protoform Stratus bodies and you really need to look hard to see the resemblance... I was checking out a Mazda 6 on the road and the same holds true.... Car manufacturers have been copying each other's body styles for years and giving it a new name, time for us to do the same.... Sorry to the big auto makers, no more royalty money for you....
I really think the idea of running different style bodies for different classes is a good idea... Look at the real world... TC is pretty much stock (27 turn motors anyone?) GT is kinda stock, but they are performance cars (19 turn??) GTP is the big boys, all out HP, aerodynamics and performance (Low turn mods...) We could probably even equate it into Nitro by means of 2 speed and engine choice.... I think it'd be a lot more fun to watch and would give spectators a better show... Let's face it, to us we can sit and watch a day's worth of Mazda 6's race and pretty much figure out what class we are watching, Jon Q Public can't....
Touring Cars are still an extremely new class compared to everything out there.... I ran into some old RC mag's from around 92 and it's a huge change....
Maybe it's time we get away from copying full size vehicles by name.... Let's face it, I was comparing my sister in law's Stratus to (sorry Dale) one of my Protoform Stratus bodies and you really need to look hard to see the resemblance... I was checking out a Mazda 6 on the road and the same holds true.... Car manufacturers have been copying each other's body styles for years and giving it a new name, time for us to do the same.... Sorry to the big auto makers, no more royalty money for you....
I really think the idea of running different style bodies for different classes is a good idea... Look at the real world... TC is pretty much stock (27 turn motors anyone?) GT is kinda stock, but they are performance cars (19 turn??) GTP is the big boys, all out HP, aerodynamics and performance (Low turn mods...) We could probably even equate it into Nitro by means of 2 speed and engine choice.... I think it'd be a lot more fun to watch and would give spectators a better show... Let's face it, to us we can sit and watch a day's worth of Mazda 6's race and pretty much figure out what class we are watching, Jon Q Public can't....
Touring Cars are still an extremely new class compared to everything out there.... I ran into some old RC mag's from around 92 and it's a huge change....
12-20-2004, 10:42 AM
#132
The problem with running different bodies for different classes is that they handle so much differently. So if some guy is doing well in stock and wants to move up to 19 turn, he not only needs to buy a differnt body, he has to learn how to set his car up for that body. Also, lets say you want to run two classes such as stock and 19 turn or 19turn and mod, not only do you have to switch motors, you need to change your car to adjust for the aerodynamic differences and reset body posts between heats.
My suggestion is that there need to be guidelines in the rules about how the body should be, ie green house size, deck lid length, roof height, a windshield of certain dimensions and a min. angle, hood height, etc. Then let the designers go to town and make the best body the can according to the rules. No more licensing, no more bickering about how a certain body doesn't really look like a certain brand.
Organizations could then keep some back pours of the body originally approved, then after a National or Worlds, the A-main finalist get there bodies impounded after and then checked against the back pours.
My suggestion is that there need to be guidelines in the rules about how the body should be, ie green house size, deck lid length, roof height, a windshield of certain dimensions and a min. angle, hood height, etc. Then let the designers go to town and make the best body the can according to the rules. No more licensing, no more bickering about how a certain body doesn't really look like a certain brand.
Organizations could then keep some back pours of the body originally approved, then after a National or Worlds, the A-main finalist get there bodies impounded after and then checked against the back pours.
Last edited by Jack Smash; 12-20-2004 at 10:48 AM.
12-20-2004, 10:58 AM
#133
how about anything BUT GTP bodies.... look at 12th scale, and 1/8 th scale gas. How many 70's Can-AM based bodies can you possibily have with different cockpit area? and calling it ...xyz tech speed 9000? 1/8th scale gas is classic example, it started in 70's based on Can-Am bodies, it's 2004 and it's STILL running around with 30 year old body style! Can you imagine running a Stratus v60 body in 2035?
RC GTP bodies have even LESS resemblance to real cars then touring does, look at LeMans/ALMS LMP classes, nothing in that class looks like any RC bodies.
RC GTP bodies have even LESS resemblance to real cars then touring does, look at LeMans/ALMS LMP classes, nothing in that class looks like any RC bodies.
12-20-2004, 11:02 AM
#134
Re: Sedan Bodies
Originally posted by daleepp
So, here's what we face in 2004:
A - Companies that want so much $ for a license agreement, that you simply can't afford to work out a deal.
B - Some companies have given "exclusives" to other companies.
eg. Ferrari and HotWheels as well as some DTM teams.
C - Some companies will only give a licence aggreement if the finalized body is virtually identicle to the real car ( in the same way that Tamiya does those beautiful truly scale bodies)
D - Companies who for reasons unknown, do not return phone calls, faxes, e-mails and do not respond to any correspondence.
eg. - Alfa.
So, here's what we face in 2004:
A - Companies that want so much $ for a license agreement, that you simply can't afford to work out a deal.
B - Some companies have given "exclusives" to other companies.
eg. Ferrari and HotWheels as well as some DTM teams.
C - Some companies will only give a licence aggreement if the finalized body is virtually identicle to the real car ( in the same way that Tamiya does those beautiful truly scale bodies)
D - Companies who for reasons unknown, do not return phone calls, faxes, e-mails and do not respond to any correspondence.
eg. - Alfa.
I don't understand why we can't just have sedan-like bodies governed by certain requirements for cab dimension, overall length, width, etc.
12-20-2004, 11:24 AM
#135
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
The one thing that I think is strange is how the ROAR rules are open for any year body for all classes except oval. I believe oval still has rule of no body can be older then a 1997.
What if a rule was added that a body can not be used if it is out of a major racing series for something like 5 years. That way all the one off LeMans style cars won't be dominating forever and the body manufactures will be looking for the newer more up to date models.
I thank Dale for putting all of this information forward as I believe it helps many people see why things happen. So rather then arguing their own opinion they can see how everything is thoughtout.
What if a rule was added that a body can not be used if it is out of a major racing series for something like 5 years. That way all the one off LeMans style cars won't be dominating forever and the body manufactures will be looking for the newer more up to date models.
I thank Dale for putting all of this information forward as I believe it helps many people see why things happen. So rather then arguing their own opinion they can see how everything is thoughtout.