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Old 01-27-2013 | 10:11 PM
  #1141  
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Since this thread is about tuning with "camber links" you can do two things on the front camber links for more steering, traction. Unless you know exactly what you need to change, I would recommend only making one of these changes at a time until the desired result is reached:

1. Raise the front link on the shock tower. This will allow the car to roll more and put more weight on the outside tire, giving you more traction, or in your case steering. Only affects traction in corners

Raise the link= more traction
Lower the link= less traction

2. Lengthen the front camber link. This will prevent the tire from increasing its negative camber angle and decreasing the tires contact patch with the surface. Since your directly affecting the tires contact patch you can also reduce forward bite on the straights, so adjust sparingly. That sounds lame. Just remember:

longer link= more traction
shorter link= less traction

Everyone always gets confused about high and low roll centers and which way to move the links. Instead of roll center, I try to keep it simple and ask myself if I need more traction or less traction on one end of the car. If I need more traction, I go up on the tower. If I need less, I go down on the tower. Just remember to focus on the end of the car that you have the issue with. I didn't mean to take over the thread. I just saw that some people get confused in the theory and lose sight of the practical applications. Good luck.

Last edited by 400units; 01-27-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013 | 05:40 AM
  #1142  
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I was just in front of my house testing long front links with a 2mm washer,arms parallel or very close.In the haste to change all that I forgot to place a shim on the right side and drove that way for 5 minutes,then put a proper setup.
Let's say there's a subjective unit of measurement for steering,Steerings that range 0-10.
The tires I have mounted have a theoretical capability of 10 Steerings.
Now lets break negotiating a turn in 3 parts,in,middle and out.
Link shorter than arm:
-with washers it felt like this: in=7 Steerings;middle=7 Steerings and out=3 steerings;
Notes:easy to drive and very stable under braking and steering,needed more high speed steering.
-without washers: in=7 Steerings;middle=5 Steerings and out=3 steerings;
Notes:latency after entering a turn,then hooks and turns normal.
Link as long as arm:
-with washers it felt like this: in=9 Steerings;middle=9 Steerings and out=7 steerings;
Notes:willing to turn and hugs the pipe,felt like I can make the rear step out on will.
-without washers: in=9 Steerings;middle=8 Steerings and out=5 steerings;
Notes:turns in very good but keep on pushing on its way out.Tames rear end.

Last edited by 30Tooth; 01-28-2013 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 01-28-2013 | 01:21 PM
  #1143  
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I had felt my SC10 is unbalanced and had wanted to try balancing it out. I just have a few questions. Why is it every factory team setup I see is softer in the back I dont get it that is where all the weight is? You dont see a Porsche with softer springs in the back then in the front.

I am running on a slightly bumpy clay track with some pretty big jumps. I have a set of front and rear springs for my factory team V2 shocks but not sure how stiff I should go in the back.

I also see some mounts for the alloy rear hubs where u can raise or lower the camber link there how would that affect the roll center compared to the tower locations.

Thanks,
John
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Old 01-29-2013 | 04:54 AM
  #1144  
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Another thing I dont get on the sc10 is we see a lot of people shave the rear camber link mount to get the ball stud lower which would raise the roll center and cause it to have more oversteer. Doesnt make sense why people do this.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 05:47 AM
  #1145  
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Originally Posted by 400units

Raise the link= more traction
Lower the link= less traction

Just remember:

longer link= more traction
shorter link= less traction


.
I believe it could be added that the shorter link is more progressive. As the chassis rolls deeper (like in a high speed turn) the shorter link will change camber the same as the longer link and then give the same traction at that point of the fast turn. But the longer link will do it through the whole corner and on slow corners too making it feel like it usually has more traction all the time. best thing is to try both and compare on the track.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 09:09 AM
  #1146  
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Originally Posted by JJay03
I had felt my SC10 is unbalanced and had wanted to try balancing it out. I just have a few questions. Why is it every factory team setup I see is softer in the back I dont get it that is where all the weight is? You dont see a Porsche with softer springs in the back then in the front.

I am running on a slightly bumpy clay track with some pretty big jumps. I have a set of front and rear springs for my factory team V2 shocks but not sure how stiff I should go in the back.

I also see some mounts for the alloy rear hubs where u can raise or lower the camber link there how would that affect the roll center compared to the tower locations.

Thanks,
John
Hideeho
It has to do with wheel rate as opposed to spring rate. I did a quick search & found a few listed spring rates for street use. The rear rates are only very slightly higher than the front. There are 3 things to note about this.
1) The stock setup for any car (& any modified street biased setup) is designed to cause the front to push rather than the rear to slide. This is not a fast set up for racing.
2) The difference in spring rate is very small (10%-20%+/-) on the setups I found in my quick search. For an idea on difference for a front engine car, my personal miata that is setup for auto cross has 700lbs/in front & 350lbs/in rear.
3) Basic principles will translate, but actual setups & even percentages do not translate from 1/10 to 1/1 scale. For starters, compare the width vs length of a 1/10 buggy to that of a real car, not to mention the arm length.
That all said, go ahead and experiment with different setups. At absolute worst you will gain some knowledge & skill in setting up your buggy. At best you will find a new setup that is the new hot setup.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 09:16 AM
  #1147  
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Thanks for the input. What I mean tho is if you go heavy on the spring rate where the car/truck is light that end will not grip very well. If I ran a heavy spring on the rear of my camaro it would be fish tailing all over the place caue they are so light in the back. With a sc10 the back is where all the weight is.

I use to have a Miataalso I learned a lot about suspension setups owning that car. I sold it though cause I just wanted a bigger car but it was a blast to drive.

I think I might try blue front springs and rear gray on the sc10. Then Ill adjust the camber links from there and the toe, wheels base, anti-squat.

Originally Posted by Waflet
Hideeho
It has to do with wheel rate as opposed to spring rate. I did a quick search & found a few listed spring rates for street use. The rear rates are only very slightly higher than the front. There are 3 things to note about this.
1) The stock setup for any car (& any modified street biased setup) is designed to cause the front to push rather than the rear to slide. This is not a fast set up for racing.
2) The difference in spring rate is very small (10%-20%+/-) on the setups I found in my quick search. For an idea on difference for a front engine car, my personal miata that is setup for auto cross has 700lbs/in front & 350lbs/in rear.
3) Basic principles will translate, but actual setups & even percentages do not translate from 1/10 to 1/1 scale. For starters, compare the width vs length of a 1/10 buggy to that of a real car, not to mention the arm length.
That all said, go ahead and experiment with different setups. At absolute worst you will gain some knowledge & skill in setting up your buggy. At best you will find a new setup that is the new hot setup.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 12:15 PM
  #1148  
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Originally Posted by JJay03
Thanks for the input. What I mean tho is if you go heavy on the spring rate where the car/truck is light that end will not grip very well. If I ran a heavy spring on the rear of my camaro it would be fish tailing all over the place caue they are so light in the back. With a sc10 the back is where all the weight is.

I use to have a Miataalso I learned a lot about suspension setups owning that car. I sold it though cause I just wanted a bigger car but it was a blast to drive.

I think I might try blue front springs and rear gray on the sc10. Then Ill adjust the camber links from there and the toe, wheels base, anti-squat.
Hideeho
I'm going to be selling my miata in the next month or so for a similar reason. It's not that the car is too small (I have a daily driver), it's that it's too small for me (I'm 6'4"). That & I got to drive an evo & an sti.

It should be interesting, if you can get it balanced with stiffer springs in the rear, to see how it handles.

I still feel I'm missing something about why the rear needs to be softer.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 12:22 PM
  #1149  
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Originally Posted by Waflet
Hideeho
I'm going to be selling my miata in the next month or so for a similar reason. It's not that the car is too small (I have a daily driver), it's that it's too small for me (I'm 6'4"). That & I got to drive an evo & an sti.

It should be interesting, if you can get it balanced with stiffer springs in the rear, to see how it handles.

I still feel I'm missing something about why the rear needs to be softer.
Im sure the main reason is to get it to hook up the power to weight ratio of a RC car has to be insane lol and the way the brakes work its like grabbin the ebrake of a real car pretty much. If I spin like crazy but like the handling im just going to turn my punch way down.

Oh and im 6'2" the miata was a tight fit and wasnt good on the back.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 02:04 PM
  #1150  
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Originally Posted by JJay03
Another thing I dont get on the sc10 is we see a lot of people shave the rear camber link mount to get the ball stud lower which would raise the roll center and cause it to have more oversteer. Doesnt make sense why people do this.
Camberlinks work backwards on the Sc10. People also thought that the rear sway bar would loosen up the truck, and that's nonsense. Truck has excess sway. A stiff rear sway bar reduces grip on entry, gives it back on exit.

Keep in mind a short rear camber rod will reduce grip on turn in, but it can also give it back on exit. The Sc10 can be loose and controllable on entry, anyone can drive that, then let it roll and hookup on exit. I don't race 2wd SCT, so I'm letting this secret out.

You can also grind the rear arms and move them forward.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 06:43 PM
  #1151  
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect
Camberlinks work backwards on the Sc10.
Can you explain this further? I don't follow why this would be the case. I too have been baffled by the shaving of the U-brace modification.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 06:57 PM
  #1152  
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Originally Posted by parallelfish
Can you explain this further? I don't follow why this would be the case. I too have been baffled by the shaving of the U-brace modification.
+1 I don't follow.
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Old 01-29-2013 | 08:10 PM
  #1153  
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The principles are the same on any vehicle. The SC10 does not defy physics in a way that would make it behave any differently. There is something else going on that is causing you to draw the wrong conclusion.
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Old 01-30-2013 | 03:39 AM
  #1154  
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Originally Posted by parallelfish
Can you explain this further? I don't follow why this would be the case. I too have been baffled by the shaving of the U-brace modification.
If you lower a link too much, it's geometry will be the same as raiseing it.

Shortening the link seems to work similar to 1/8th scale though. Keep in mind that the Sc10 has a ton of roll that other cars do not have. I never set my rear links to full long on the 2wd Sc10.

If you look in the back of AE's 1/10th manuals, you'll notice that thier link recommendations for 1/10th scale are opposite of the link recommendations in the Hudy 1/8th scale bible.

1/10th scale is all F'd up. It wasn't until I raced 1/8th scale that I had any luck playing with camber link locations.
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Old 01-30-2013 | 05:57 AM
  #1155  
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Well 1/10 scale 2wd is screwed up cause of 2wd and only having rear brakes an no traction. 1/8th scale you have awd with tons of grip and braking on all 4 wheels. I would like to have an 1/8th scale but I want to be really consistent with the 2wd first. It has a lot of roll cause most people go really soft with the rear springs to get the traction.

Originally Posted by Zerodefect
If you lower a link too much, it's geometry will be the same as raiseing it.

Shortening the link seems to work similar to 1/8th scale though. Keep in mind that the Sc10 has a ton of roll that other cars do not have. I never set my rear links to full long on the 2wd Sc10.

If you look in the back of AE's 1/10th manuals, you'll notice that thier link recommendations for 1/10th scale are opposite of the link recommendations in the Hudy 1/8th scale bible.

1/10th scale is all F'd up. It wasn't until I raced 1/8th scale that I had any luck playing with camber link locations.
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