The "black ones" Mylaps are referring to are AMB20 rechargeable transponders.
They are the same shape as the AMBrc rechargeable hand out, but are analogue and came in sets of 1-10 or 1-20 so there was only ever 20 numbers produced so personal transponders were not possible with that system.
These have only ever been compatible with the AMB20 system and has never been compatible with any of the RC systems.

Bishop's post #41 sums it all up pretty well and I agree.
Just one point.
The company was originally AMBi.t. and merged with ChampionChip to form the new company name Mylaps. I believe it was a move to increase their market share (dominate all sports timing) and attempt to shake off the bad baggage of the AMB name.

RC is minor section of there market when compared to Karting, Motocross, Speedway and so on.

Bit of rock and a hard place. What are you going to do when racers turn up with a pure RC4 transponders, it's not going to work either!

Mylaps have had the good offer of trading in your RC2 for an RC3 available for about 2 years and while the price was a bit expensive (about $2K if I recall correctly) I thought it was wise to take advantage of that offer and recommended clubs do it if they could afford it.
The RC3 was much better beast than the RC2 which was a bit of a lame duck in comparison.
That offer has gone since the latest RC4 issue.

But this latest trade from RC3 to RC4 is a whole new can of worms.
The fact that the pure RC4 transponder (non hybrid) will only work with RC4 decoder is sh*te and just seems like a tactic to force elimination of RC2 and RC3 decoders.

I think what will happen is clubs won't change over and will recommend the mrts as the new rc4 won't work. Basically they will end up losing sales with these tactics.

I don't envy any club who has to make the choice to trade in a decoder, as it locks them into something either way (although new decoders are a hell strong lure), for some clubs it may be a very unpopular move to upgrade, as I have read of a few where use of MRT transponders is very common, often accounting for half their racers.

After trying my hardest to stay away from my own club for a few weeks during our off season break (and failing), I went in to check our decoders today, and it looks good for us, as both our decoders are just able to firmware update to RC4, giving us the flexibility to choose not to update for now, with no risk involved, and the best options to maybe just move one to RC4 if we choose, when we choose.

I'm guessing once any firmware version is flashed to RC4, it's going to lock out any chance of a user level back flash to a RC3 version, which is a shame, as I'd like to see clubs given that option, given the situation they have been put in, but I'd guess that would defeat the point of what MyLaps is doing.


You know when you look at the MyLaps site in great detail, you do realize RC is a very small part of their products, but then you also realize the exact same decoders are used for everything, just obviously with firmware changes to suit use and specific transponders.
Saying that, after browsing earlier, I was like WTF when I saw they do a transponder for running/cycling etc, small and has a battery that lasts 5 years, and works up to 75kph, talk about an ideal new club transponder design...

As Jeff (bigfix) said, club handout transponders (like those in the attached picture) will work with the RC4 decoder. I have tested this and they work. The attached are not the older black AMB20 club transponders.

I own an MRT (and several AMB's) and the MRT has worked well in the past. However, with the new situation where the RC4 decoders do not reliably read MRT's I, as a race director and club president, would not recommend MRT's to our members going forward because they will not work at our club (or any club with an RC4 decoder).

Given the interesting history info from Bishop and bigfix it seems like MRT were dancing around AMB's copyright and MyLaps have called them on it. Fair one. But MyLaps should have provided full information from the start and then we wouldn't be doing our own testing and comparing notes.

Agreed.

If anyone has actually seen and tried an RC4 Pure (purcy) transponder that would be useful feedback. My understanding from Alycat is that a software upgrade will be necessary to read a Purcy transponder at all (ie; can't count laps from a Purcy without the software upgrade because it communicates differently). Fair one. Alycat are in the same boat as the rest of us, trying to figure out what MyLaps are doing!

So I wouldn't be buying a Purcy anytime soon until the dust settles on the RC4 decoder and the Alycat software is available to read it! One assumes that if you use MyLaps Timing Software then it already works with the Purcy but given the way this has been launched that may be an incorrect assumption LOL!

Our club has had our RC2 Decoder for a number of years and it seems to work perfectly fine. Never really have an issue with it.

Can anyone give me an idea of what benefits we would see with an RC4 or even an RC3 ?

I'm keen to put a case fwd to our committee to upgrade if we would benefit from it.

I am very familiar with most of the Mylaps and AMB products because I service and repair ALL types of transponders, multi charging cases and decoders.

All the current Mylaps decoders all look the same on the outside.
I have two later style decoders, 1 is an AMBrc3 decoder and the other is a AMB TranX decoder.
The latter is used for full size motor sports such as speedway and karts. Both look the same inside.

As Bishop says and I agree, the firmware in each type of decoder makes the difference.
I believe it would be possible to make one of these decoders work with ALL of the Mylaps/AMB transponders with the right firmware.
But it is most likely not in Mylaps business interests to do this.

At $3,800AUD Australian retail price seems rather high for what you can see inside a TranX/AMBrc decoder in the photo below.
My high spec Toshiba Qosmio laptop only cost $1,400AUD and I used to service laptops and know there is more in them than a decoder.

Active race directors may have other views and opinions to add, but here is my take on it.

The AMBrc3 or Mylaps RC3 decoder has a screen which displays hits and noise levels. I see this as an advantage over the RC2 because you can see straight away if there is an issue with the loop system.
The other advantage is that the RC3 has an Ethernet port so it can be connected to a network and several PCs can receive the data.
If the decoder is connected to the internet and registered on the Mylaps web site practice data can be looked at by any of your racers.
I know of an Aussie club that has a decoder on all the time at there track so that racers can get their practice data online.
Connection between the decoder and the PC can also be done directly using a crossover Ethernet cable so no network is needed but you need to set static IP addresses in the PC and decoder for this to work.
This eliminates the need for using a USB to RS232 adaptor which is some cases can be unreliable.
If using one of these I recommend a quality adaptor such as a Belkin with the three lights on it.

Just to recap, I used to recommend that clubs with RC2 decoders take advantage of the Mylaps trade up offer to RC3 as it was a reasonable deal at around $2K to swap.
The recommendation was because of the screen, Ethernet and future proofing because the RC3 could take firmware updates but the RC2 cannot.

However, in light of the MRT and Pure RC4 transponders I am unable to make a recommendation on the swap to RC4 as the pros and cons will have different impact on each club.
So each club needs to weigh up the issues to make the best choice for their situation.

I think the current generation decoder is very good, they did a fair bit to improve it's reliability, and the display allows you to see in real time your loop noise etc, so you can see where any problems arise with that, and alter the sensitivity to drop false passings from things passing around the loop area.

The network connection I believe was a big jump in terms of best connection option, the creator of our timing software believes it's the best possible connection method in terms of being most reliable.

We have both our decoders on networks, the primary lives on a main network and has a fixed IP address, and any computer connected to that network can receive timing data, so good for a primary and backup setup for major events, also while doing that it can actively upload results to the internet onto MyLaps.

Our second decoder actually sits on a second system hooked into some wifi, it stays on 24/7 and people who practice during the week etc can get live timing feeds of their laptops or Android phones.

Thanks guys. Our club will probably update our old laptop to a new one and latest Alycat but might hold off on the decoder till this plays out a bit longer.
Interesting you mention the Serial/USB converter Jeff. I remember earlier in the year trying to get our decoder to work on my new laptop. I bought a Serial/USB converter from Jaycar. I could never get it to work though. Couldn't recognise the Decoder at all. I put it down to being a Windows 7 thing and gave up. Now we do want to buy a new computer though. It might have been the Serial/USB converter not doing it's job. I did read there are problems with some brands.

Do you know of a particular brand/model that is known to work with the AMB2 ?

I had tried a few USB/Serial adaptors and naturally went for the cheaper ones first.
However the best one I found is a Belkin F5S409, it has always worked in the many situations I've used it for.
I do some work for a friend in the audiovisual industry and load programming into Crestron control gear and initial connection to Crestron processors is done by RS232 and Crestron recommend the Belkin F5S409.

http://www.belkin.com/au/p/P-F5U409

When you connect the USB/Serial adaptor to your computer the first time you usually need to go into the Device Manager and look to see which COM port number has been assigned to the adaptor and then adjust Alycat or whatever software you are using to match the COM port number.
After that it should remain on the same COM each time you use it, however if it decides not to work, check the Device Manager as it may have reassigned the COM port number.
You can change it in the Device Manager.

The other key part is to ensure the serial cable is the correct type.
There is straight wired and crossover wired.
I make my own serial cables and for the decoder you need one that is wired so that when the serial cable is plugged back into itself the same wires are on the same pins.
Bit rusty on this but I think this means it is a crossover cable.

Toshiba kept using serial ports on their laptops until a couple of years ago, have a look at the Toshiba Tecra M10 it's fast enough to do anything race control needs to do. I use an older Tecra A3 currently and it's fine.

Appreciate the info Jeff!! Wish I knew all that a while back.

Will prob make a final decision tomorrow but looks like we will do the trade in.
We have a full set of working Club transponders so people with MRT can use those till they upgrade.
Does anyone know the turnaround time for the trade ins ? Do we send to an aussie address or overseas ? Don't want to get to the start of our season and have no decoder!

I've asked MyLaps some questions but no answers yet.

Thanks for the heads up Bugle! If we keep our current system will def look into one of those. Just googled and found a refurbished one for $280!