Haha!

Merry Christmas from me also

:-)

It's interesting reading the discussion of motor specs in the US from an outsiders point of view. I was under the impression that 17.5, 13.5 and Mod were all common in the US, if not at every club, then at least at all the major meetings. What's the actual distribution like at club tracks?

It was a little surprising to see 21.5 mentioned, but then I looked up the CRC track, and it is really small compared to what I'm used to. The smallest track in NSW right now is the one at the top of the page!

I've done some work recently to get 10.5 blinky adopted by some clubs in Australia. We haven't had any spec 12th racing until now, and as a result 12th scale has been on life support with only the requirement to run it at States and Nationals for Worlds qualification keeping it alive at all. We're getting some traction with 10.5 though. When I was trying to work out what the motor format should be for spec 12th in Aus I read about racing in the US and in the UK. It seemed the UK tracks were larger than the US ones, so I erred towards their motor format. Now we call the 10.5 class Eurostock.

10.5 is about the right speed for most everyone at most of the places I've driven it. Occasionally I worry that I might have picked a format that's a little too slow when I'm driving around a 3m wide TC track, but I've got over a decade of driving experience, and those thoughts are fleeting. At the gooped up permanent carpet track at top of screen though, the class definitely feels faster than anywhere else, they carry more corner speed and the track is tighter, and not everyone is coping as well with 10.5 there as they do elsewhere. There are a larger portion of people attempting 12th there who've never driven a pan car before, and in many cases not driven anything faster than a 21.5 TC. This is why they are introducing a 17.5 class.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that from my limited experience in Aus, track size and grip levels play an important role in determining the right spec motor. The experience level of the drivers is also a very important factor. Mod 12th was only being driven by the best TC racers in the main, even on some of the largest tracks we have. Offering a slower class was necessary to bring in drivers who'd run Stock in other formats.

Our outdoor track is good sized so we went with 13.5 blinky for 1/12th. Seems about the right speed

A 21.5 under one cell will make about 25 or 30 watts, theres just no element of terror in that.

Totally agree. For me 19T was the sweet spot for 4-cell. Enough power to have punch and speed, but not so fast that you needed the unobtainium batteries and reflexes of a cat to be competitive. Looking at dyno sheets it appears that a brushed 19T was about 185-190W and a brushless 13.5T is 200W. The chassis are better and lighter, but we are now on 3.7v, hence 13.5T would seem to be be a decent comparison.

Jon.

Interesting discussion....

I got out of RC back in 2003 and had never really driven a 12th scale, but for half a season on a huge asphalt track running 6-cell Mod. When I got back into things, I started running 17.5 at my local carpet track and have enjoyed it immensely. One of the first things that I noticed was, even with the 17.5s, the cars felt faster to me than the old 6-cell Mod. Track size plays a huge role in the relative feeling of speed with the different turn motors... As does the amount and type of traction.

Since getting back into RC, I have raced 12th at 4 different tracks. My local carpet track, 2 local asphalt tracks(one temp parking lot setup, the other a permanent gas on-road track), and Vegas. 17.5 feels quick enough at my local carpet track. We use the black can Paragon only... and as grip builds, the cars get very edgy, which IMO lends itself to the "relative feeling of speed". At the local parking lot track, it felt slow, but not too bad. The track wasn't too big, but grip was low enough that you had to wait on the cars in the corner... so there was no feeling of speed, neither on the straights nor the turns.

At the larger permanent asphalt track, 17.5 felt terribly slow... that paint-drying feeling. This was with higher grip, too. You could just run pinned, literally everywhere.

When I went to Vegas this year, I ran 17.5 and 13.5. The track layout was similar in size and width to most of the layouts we run locally. One of the first things I noticed, however, was how smooth and easy to drive the cars felt using JTG. Even as the grip got higher, the cars never developed that edgy/twitchy feeling I am used to using Paragon. Coupled with a rather open layout this year, 17.5 felt a bit slower than what I am used to. 13.5 felt really good to me, like a perfect stock speed given the grip level and layout. Having just driven 13.5 the week prior for the first time at my local track, I remember thinking to myself "this would be way too fast for half of our Stock 12th racers"... yet at IIC, it felt very comfortable.

I think it is very difficult to judge what is or is not an appropriate speed for Stock 12th given that there are so many different variables.

Happy Holidays, to my 12th scale extended familia

James
Agree on all points, except...

Any sauce on new rug feels smooth
New carpet at IIC is one of the main reasons I like that race so much

Nothing like 12th scale racing on new rug, with good comp, meeting cool racers from around the globe, and Scotty on the mic

13.5 SS is on the edge of my skill-set at our local track
Mod is fun, 17.5 is too
But 13.5 is imo, the best bang for the buck in this class

View of the pace at one of our recent Expert 13.5 races

+ YouTube Video

JTG and SXT 3.0 never make a track get to the levels of traction we saw in the paragon days. This keeps the cars smoother for an entire event.

My home track has 2 year old carpet that grooves up pretty fast. Cars feels smooth there too.

I think the cars getting better, setups developing to make the most of order less sauce and blinky/smoother speedos have made 1/12 a very nice to drive, more fun class.

17.5 is good for beginners at most tracks, 13.5 is fun for us veterans and stepping up to Mod is more achievable than ever.

Gotta be my mind playing tricks on me. I was out a month ago with my old Trinity MCR, ROAR 91 27t brush on 4 cells, and I swear the speeds were close! (not the same track) Ok the speed down the straight wasn't quite there but through the corner speeds were similar. Maybe just wishful thinking. I doubt 2000 mAh through a 27t stock motor geared to make 8 minutes could actually run with those cars.



Sean

That's a good point and could very well be the case... Vegas was my first carpet race away from home and also my first race on a new rug and with Jack. I remember thinking to myself how awesome the cars felt on the surface.... very easy to drive.

In the comparison of performance, when I got back into 1/12 in 2011 i was racing a older Trinity Monster Motor and 4300's against boosted 1s 13.5, and the performance was more than comparable. The boost gave the 13.5 a bit more squirt down the end of the straight after the stock/cells had run out of revs, but the brushed motor and extra volts had great acceleration. When I swapped out for a Stock Spec V2 and LRP X12 with a one cell, the car accelerated a little longer, but felt largely the same power wise.
Oh well, brushed and boosted are dead, I just think 17.5 is too slow for anything but straight beginners and 21.5 is way too slow.

17.5 teaches you the importance of driving clean; one tap and you are done.

(this is why I enjoy it, but also why many others hate it.)

I recently got into 1/12th onroad after running offroad for a couple of years...1/10th and 1/8th (both nitro and electric) and it's a great change of pace. The track I run at has a 13.5t blinky 1/12 class and it feels about 'right' for someone who has some r/c experience but little to no onroad time. The cars seem slow accelerating off corners but carry so damn much speed through them they're still quite fast. There's no mod classes at the track I run onroad at so 13.5 1/12th is by far the fastest class on the track.

It's a pity there's no local onroad scene . If I want to run it's a minimum of a 2hr drive, next closest track is 4hrs away.

Can any one give me a rough idea on roll out for 17.5 on a small-medium indoor track?

What are the strongest/ most reliable 1/12 cars available? I would like to begin this class and need your advice