Thanks for the good opinions on the Havoc 1s.. the fact that its 1s only isnt an issue we have 3 or 4 2s systems in play already.
the fact that its discontinued does raise an eyebrow but an earlier poster said his is fine...

Its a $160.00 experiment. if we get deep into 1/12 and want to get more serious with the GOOD stuff it should still be a good enough system for a back up car.
Thanks for the 2Cents worth guys and if anyone has another opinion im still listening.
now to figure rollout for our little track and get a range of pinion opinions...
these we shall glean from reading more pages of this thread.