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Old 02-09-2010, 11:11 PM
  #13  
GSMnow
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 530
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I have to disagree about the poor low end of a Mamba Max and a 5700 motor. That is what I have in my Losi XXX-4. It has gobs of torque at any speed, and the control is very precise. The only problem is the transmitter trigger is actually a motor RPM control, not a power control. Once you can wrap your mind around that, you can get a better feel for what it is doing. You need to roll into the trigger, not jerkit, even rolling along at 1/4 throttle at say 12 mph, if you jerk the trigger to just half throttle, it will try to yank the tires up to 24 mph so fast that it will likely pull a wheelie. If you are on a tight, slick, and/or technical track, the MM 5700 package will be a handful to keep under control. It is not doing anything very wrong, it is just trying to do what your finger asks for, just a bit too forcefully. The Punch control setting can help if used carefully, but don't dial in too much, or it will make it hard to control the car attitude in the air off of jumps. If I was buying another system for 1/10 today, I would have bought the 4600 motor as it has a bit less torque when geared for the same speed, so it will not jerk quite as hard. The only other little thing the Mamba Max does that a normal sensored ESC does not is how the power will clibm with rpm, even as you hold a steady finger. Again, this is not really a flaw in the system, but a case of the motor getting more efficient as the ESC is dialing in more timing as the revs climb. This makes the motor hold it's torque much further up the rev range. This can feel foreign as all brush motors and fixed timing sensored motors all lose torque in a steady fall off as rpm climbs. The biggest mistake people make when setting up a Castle system in a car is they over gear them by quite a bit. The system makes so much torque, that it seems to drive fine and still spins the tires and makes run time, so they think the gearing is fine, or could even go higher, but all that does is make the trigger far more touchy. Get a feel for the fastest the car can reach on the track, and gear that speed to be the top out rpm of the motor, where RPM = KV x Batt Volts. On the longest straight of the track, you want to be able to get to and hold full throttle for at least a second or two before you need to brake it down again. If you are getting out of it while it is still accelerating, you are just wasting power and making the ESC and motor run much hotter than needed. My XXX-4 is geared 17:94 with 2.1:1 at the diffs on 3.3 inch tall tires (about 10.5 inch per evolution). Plug in the numbers and it goes like this.

Motor RPM = 5700 x 7.4 = 42,180 RPM
Spur gear rpm = 42,180 / (94/17) = 7629
Wheel rpm = 7629 / 2.1 diff ratio = 3633 wheel rpm
Speed on ground = 3633 x 10.5 = inches per minute = 38,141
38,141 / 12 = 3178 feet per minute
3178 x 60 = 190707 feet per hour
190707 / 5280 = 36.12 MPH

With all the talk of 60+ mph cars, this sounds slow, but there is not another 1/10 scale that can out pull me down the longest straight at Hot Rod Hobbies. And this slower gearing makes it so much easier to drive in the technical sections. I had a competitor friend last year with the same XXX-4 chassis, but running a Novak 5.5R / GTB system. If you revved his up in the air, the tires all ballooned like pie plates. His no load wheel speed was probably over 55 mph. But under the load of the car, we topped out at very close to the same speed. On the track, I easilly could pull out fron him at any speed, and coming onto the main straight, rolling at over 20 mph, I could pull out several feet with ease, and he never closed any distance on me. The only problem I found was his tires would last longer, so by the end of a night, he could take tighter turns at a little more speed than me. I attribute that to a bit more wheel spin than him, which is due to more torque. I am NOT a great driver, my reaction time is not what it was, and it sure shows. I handed off my car to a national level driver, and he immediately asked what I had for a motor in it. He had the reaction time to deal with the torque, but he had to make a mental adjustment for it, but then he was easilly turning TQ time laps with my car. All this AFTER I had run a 6 minute main and had not even let the car cool, same battery and all. I do trade off wins with the other 4WD guys, but when I lose, it is my driving errors, not the Mamba Max.

Full sensored is easier to drive, because it has less torque for a given amount of trigger, and the torque always fall off as the revs climb for any given trigger position.

Due to my aging reactions, I am going to be downgrading the car to Super Stock with a 13.5 motor, and to make it run the best, it will get a Mamba Max Pro. I ra a 13.5 on the old Mamba Max, and it had serious issues starting, it, but once it was rolling, it was a total joy to drive. The top end with the dynamic sensorless timing was amazing for a 13.5, so I am certainly looking forward to driving it with the MM Pro which will start it with the sensors and still use the advanced timing control to get the most power out of the "spec" 13.5 motor.
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