Originally Posted by
imjonah
lets say your goal was either
1. The fastest possible ROAR legal 1/ 10 scale TC
or
2. The fastest possible 1/ 10 scale TC which looks something like a ROAR legal
car
Instead of re-tracing the trial and error incremental improvements which are represented by the high end kits from the major manufacturers, you would be far better of served working in the following areas.
1.Use real scientific research with instruments and methods out of you physics/engineering lab. Using telemetry and computer control systematically change variables/ record results. In the RC world there is a ton of subjectivity since conditions change and skill levels between drivers and between drivers own performance from one day to the next vary.
This or that battery, motor/ tire will be recommended over another with virtually no empirical data to back it up.
Motor A will be said to out accelerate Motor B without any real world test.
If I am not mistaken, scientific highly instrumented computerized testing of every variable is the way it is done in 1:1 scale racing.
I think I read some where that the budget for F1 motor R&D alone ran into the tens of millions per manufacturer per year.
2. Experimentation with on board advance electronics such as electronic traction control gyros, etc. Many improvements are specifically ruled out by ROAR rules but like brushless/lipo might be allowed if they proved successful on club level.
I am not an electronics expert but their are many aspects of RC that seam to be behind the curve when it comes to recent technology.
(the high tech i seems over priced when it does arrive) My $29 cell phone seems a whole lot more sophisticated than Futabas $399 2.4ghz transmitter. The electronics in a $149 ESC don't seem like much of a bargain.)
In other words I would be surprised you could improve on a high end TC kit like Xray T2, HB Cyclone, chassis but I would be equally surprised if through scientific study you could not improve on the adjustment and fine tunning of the whole package.
I just had to reply to this when I read it.
You see to already know me well
I had all these ideas in my head when I decided to get into touring and some guys trying to talk me into pan cars when the main reason I was wanting to do touring is because there are much more variables to work with. Using my experience in scientific method and iterations of small steps in variables I could not only test what works on the track, but I could also test individual variables. As an example, as you implied, I could take a given motor for instance, set it up with a known gear ratio and test acceleration of the car on a single stretch of track and I could make timed acceleration runs. This could then be compared with another motor of the same class to identify which motor might be best for instantaneous acceleration of either low,mid, or high speed runs. Not only this, you could use a simple min/max formula to add up the degree of turns and straights to identify the best way to gear the car given how long you need full speed vs acceleration out of corners.
So in this respect I could use my experience in physics to work through every variable of the car one or two at a time for motors, gearing, suspension, etc. Could write some simple formulas to use as baseline setups for new tracks by calculating the degree of the turns, how many, how long the straights are, etc.
One reason I wanted to make my own chassis, is that I have been working on full scale project cars all my life. And one major project I was going to undertake soon was to build my very own full size car. I planned to make it electric drive with a massive battery tray that could be unpinned and slid out from under the car for swapping between charge packs. I also have a 600hp 1966 Impala that I have done 100% of the work on including the 387ci small block chevy motor pushing almost 600hp and over 550ft-lbs of torque. Its so powerful it is even a bit too powerful for drag racing since I haven't addressed the suspension yet. I was going to design my own upper/lower A-arms and adjustable caster/camber brackets for the front suspension. So I thought it might be nice to start on a 1/10th scale to make sure all my knowledge in geometry, physics, and real world experience is at least close to what I think it is.
At this point I have purchased a TC5R used from someone on the forum so I guess I will start there. If I really enjoy the hobby, there is a good possibility I will go ahead with my own scratch build. And if its comparable to today's cars I will consider building a few prototypes for people to test out. If it gets good reviews, maybe I can start another company and try to drop the prices to make this hobby a bit cheaper for the new guys
As you said, you don't see the value in these radios and ESC's let me tell you this. I totally agree.
An example of this: A 2000 amp motor controller for an electric vehicle is around $3500 bucks. A 500 amp motor controller in the 96-144volt range is about $1475.00.... I built my own 1500amp motor controller for $130-140 in parts. It was my own design from scratch. It has a few safety futures and even a current limiter. Now I do realize I have probably $4000-5000 in design/prototype build labor, but that's basicly all done now. If I started selling these in a new startup company. I don't see any problem with selling them at like $450-500. For this price I could probably afford to rent a corner of someones office building hit hard by the economy and even higher Americans to assemble them and pay for the materials and the lights. And still probably manage enough profits to expand to other things. Our 1/10th ESC's have about $17-22 in parts in them. Everything from casing, heat sinks, mosfets, programmable chips. If they are completely hand assembled and soldered. With experience, I would estimate you can do one every 3-5 minutes. At $6 bucks an hr wages (just throwing out a random number) this is 40 cents labor per ESC? So yes, someone is putting $100+ in profits into their bank per unit. I guess we can see why there are still quite a few different ESCs and manufactures on the market.
I got a bit winded so I will end here. And go read the posts after this one that I replyed too :P
Thanks again for all the good discussion.