i didn't start this thread to trash losi or their products. i totally agree that RTR cars/trucks are needed in our hobby to help it grow. the main point i was attempting to make was that it seems to me that with the eight and the eightT being the exceptions to the rule, that losi has forgotten about the people who helped them become the successful brand that they are and that is the racing community. sure bashers are needed as most will eventually become racers when they want to. also just a sidenote, associated followed losi into the mini market (rc18 series) and then when it seemed not to work for them they stopped pushing the issue, losi hasn't. but i still expect to see losi in a toys r us store in the near future. keep racing and support your LHS