Well 4 turns out from closed on the HSN is fine and that is the factory setting for that needle, but 2 1/2 turns on the LSN from closed is WAY too lean, the factory setting is 6 1/2 turns from closed which while that may be slobberingly rich its where you want to be starting from. Mine is happily tuned at 3 3/4 on the HSN and 5 1/2 on the LSN.