Originally Posted by
AdrianM
InspGadgt is right. I know Bob and he is a smart guy but I think he is a bit too in love with this even splitting of laps and lap time per class concept.
Stock is supposed to be the entry level class where racers learn to drive and setup their equipment at speeds that let them have the time to react and avoid crashes.
19T is supposed to be the next step up. You get quite a bit more speed and a little more punch than a stock motor so proper driving, throttle control and car setups are more critical. Here is the big deal about 19T and 10.5. Sure the lap time are close to Mod but these motors are WAY EASIER to drive than a full blow open mod motor.
Mod is the ultimate level for guys that really want to be the best drivers. You have more power than you could possibly use and throttle driving and car setups are critical. You can only drive full throttle in a couple places on the track per lap.
Even though 19/10.5 can generate very close lap time to Open Mod there is an enormous difference in feel. A really good 19T driver can't just step up to Mod and be really fast. The gap in power and skill necessary to be fast is really big.
This is why I think 13.5 would be a very poor choice to be the next spec mod class. Like I said before...forget lap times. Its all about the feel of driving these motors. 13.5 is too close to 17.5 in feel and speed to do any good for up and coming drivers. The jump to open mod would be even more shocking.
Of the currently available motors only the 10.5 is close enough to Mod feel to be a good midpoint between 17.5 and open mod.
Just all theory's and good friendly debate. The thread is a debate on brushless and the ROAR rules and how can we make sure that through it's use that we have fair and equatable racing.
Firstly, stock is a motor designation, not a skill level. I think we've had that wrong for years. And it's been to fast for about about the last 10-15 years. And you see this when you watch a new guy beat the holy crap out of a car on his first few weeks at the track. You can usually spot the newest guy at that track, his body is the most beat, cracked, and taped, and that's just the second weekend.
19 turn shouldn't really be anything specific, and surely not the next level over stock. 19 turn is hard to drive fast for probably 80% of the drivers that are in the class. And the way to prove that is by watching how few stock drivers can go substantially faster in 19 turn, if at all.
Mod is what it is. Strap it in and hang on. And most of us are.
For the record, I'm not particularly in love with any concept. My thoughts are pretty straight forward, and largely accurate in a few of the most basic areas.
We have BL mod and we have the slowest generally accepted race motor (27 turn brushed) and we have what is in between. And some random silver can racing (which frankly I've done, and like a lot in both 1/12th and touring).
What ROAR should be trying to do, and within our realm of present technology, would be to build legitimate stepping stone classes. If done correctly, the classes get faster and even involve more technology. If done correctly, a guy in the fastest class, could sell his batteries off to the noobs a few classes back, and they'd save a buck (still be competitive), and the hardcore fast guy would have a new pack again if that was what he desired.
Sadly for Stormer Hobbies, I think a lot of my ideas for good rules revolve around concepts that don't stimulate sales for us. This is counterproductive, but I feel the long term health of the hobby is a better goal. I have a crazy idea where only mod and pro drivers would use the most high end packs available, and everybody else would use the cells say 6 months back (or whatever it was). For example, this season, 4500-4600's for the mod guys, everybody else is in the 4200's. Mod and pro guys move on dump their 42's into the market place. The 42 guys can still buy new stuff but also there are good used pro packs floating around for the budget dudes, and the 42's are still available for purchase new.
The season before was 38's and 42's. And on it would go. The whole thing is full of holes, but the idea behind it is sound. It also, and absolutely stops the griping of the new guys worried about the "Battery of the week" nonsense that they feel is the real reason they are 2 seconds a lap off in stock, and we all now the real reason, but nobody likes to admit that.
Lipo aside, cell advancement aside, availability aside. Just wrap around this scenario for 3 classes. It would change the next season.
And because this is the Brushless thread, I've configured it around that scenario. I have thoughts for brushed as well. And for the love of PETE, don't call a class by the name of the motor. Give the class a name like
GT1 or something. That way when it's time to update the motor or cells or whatever the class name stays the same, and a few of the particulars change. Just like people that are married to the class, "STOCK". which is not a class, but a motor.
I also don't feel people want to be lumped into classes like, "Rookie and noob", come up with better names. It's cool to be a "Sportsman", not cool to be a "noob".
Class3, BL Mod, newest cells available 4500-4600's
Class2, BL13.5, 4200's
Class1, BL17.5 or 21.5, 3800's
Now before you just up and hate it. Wrap around the concept of the speed level of the cars and cost to play in the classes based on tire wear, and the price of cells.
You could race a higher class and start somebody in your family at a reasonable speed, and they could use your old cells. You get new stuff, and don't feel like you've handicapped the new guys, because you haven't. Nor is it necessary to buy them all the new stuff, even if only outta guilt.
Just something to debate. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong.