thanks for the tips guys , and just in case i dont like the faskolor stuff i still have my pactra collection lol, ive been painting for a a while and can do some pretty decent flames , fades and checkers , but i wanna step it up a bit so im sure ill have alot more questions . I always try my search button first but dont have much luck with it. once again thanks for the help there are some unbelievable painters on here.