Originally Posted by Fsturbo15
The x-12 is a long stroke dude.
And by the way, ACCORDING TO THE PAPERWORK, it clearly says NOVAROSSI ENGINE X-12 LONG STROKE ON-ROAD ENGINE.
The X-12 is not the same as the NS/NSR, i'm sorry.
I don't know what your driving skill is like but based on the way I drive I would get the long stroke. It's not about the top end, it's about the low to mid range torque where the engine will be most of the time on a track.
I use both the Mugen X12 and the Novarossi NS12S3. The X12 is a great engine since it has a true long stroke. Perfect for a technical track and when geared correctly it's a killer on a long straight (150' and longer). Where the other .12's top out, the X12 is still pulling hard. On the inner track where it is critical, the powerband is perfect. The X12 is for a mid sized/technical track. It has good power placement as well as excellent punch off the line.
The NS12 is for smaller tracks. It's a high reving engine and does well on the inner track as well but as I said earlier, it putters out on longer straights (unless geared correctly and shifting correctly).
I would choose the X12 over the NS12 any day. That is why my NS12 has become one of my 2 back up engines.
If you really want a long stroke, and it suits your driving style ... the Novarossi N12LL is an exact twin of the X12.
Like I said before, the LL is similer to the x-12, the fuel economy problem has been fixed and it puts out a few more HP.
I believe the LL is 1.58 while the X-12 is around 1.56, unsure though.
OK dude. You asked for it. First, I didn't say the X12 isn't a long stroke. Yes the X12 is a long stroke. Its stroke is longer than its bore. The LL is a LONGER stroke than the X 12. So when compared to each other, the X12 has a shorter stroke than the LL.
The same piece of paper that you looked at calling the X12 a long stroke engine also will tell you if look closely that it is an NS12. If you still want to not believe me, look at the exploded view with the parts listing. They are the same. Same piston, sleeve, rod, crank, bearings, etc. Same bore, same stroke. I'm sorry, they are the same. Still don't want to believe me... Call Mugen and ask them. Forgot, they have a different cylinder head.
The N12 LS3 is the new long stroke. The N12 LL3 is the new LONGER stroke. The LS replaces the NSR which replaced the NS. The difference between the NS and NSR was the microcast piston/sleeve. When they went to the LS they changed the sleeve.
The LL replaces the RR12L3. The LL has a different sleeve.
Feel free to go to Novarossi's website and download the parts list and compare them to the Mugen X12 parts list. I was not trying to be a jerk, but simply correct inaccuracies. The differences you see in your engines may be in tuning or just your perception.
The LL is quite different than the X12. Different piston, sleeve, and crank.
Finally, the general difference. As you increase stroke, you increase torque. As you increase bore, you increase RPM. The RR and LL engines are torquier, and the NSR/LS is a more revvy (yeah I know that isn't a real word) top speed engine. The simple reason is as follows. Shorter stroke, the piston has to travel a shorter distance to complete a cycle. This makes it rev easier.