R/C Tech Forums - View Single Post - power versus torque at rpm
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:31 PM
  #47  
waitwhat
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I think you will find if you try to make the timing come in after the motor has already got to the peak of the torque curve that your car will feel like it has a two speed transmission on track. You might be able to get it to work better than I could because of how you are able to analyze your data. Even still, on track it will feel like it does something non-linear which might make the car harder to drive. I race off-road, so if something non-linear happens with the throttle it can cause loss of traction or strange jumping characteristics. To get the most linear feeling throttle with timing I looked at my rpm ranges on my telemetry data from a run with a blinky setup that was at the limit. Then I picked my gearing, motor timing and rpm range for my timing. It makes the motor feel like a mod motor, and everything was warm to the touch after a run.

This is one of the downfalls of running on a chassis dyno. You need to analyze the data the car makes on track, and make your adjustments based on how that data changes.

On track you only go from 0 rpms once (or as few times as possible). You are going to have a range of usable rpm based on a gearing choice (which changes any time the layout changes). If timing starts coming in right at the beginning of the rpm range it will arc out very linear power and efficiency numbers. At the top of the rpm range I am running ≈95° of timing.

Efficiency and Power
So, ideally, the commutation would be aligned with the neutral plane, right?

You remember the winding time? This is the time it takes for the current to change direction in the coils, and since it takes some time, you can guess that it’s really something progressive: the current fades down to zero, then rises (in the other direction).

This brings the question, which part of this process do you want to align with the neutral plane? When it starts, when the current is zero, or when the coils are re-energized?

The answer is, frustratingly, “it depends”. If it’s done when at zero, it will be most efficient, but if it’s done in the earlier phase of the process, there will be more power output. Isn’t that the same, power and efficiency? Not precisely: being efficient might have a bit less output power, but will consume less supplied power to produce it. For example, the more powerful setting could have 5% more power output, but consume 10% more input power.

In spec racing, you might want to optimise for higher power, while in modified racing, you could have a motor that has plenty of power, but you might want to optimise it for efficiency (improving the runtime, and keeping the motor cooler).
That is a quote from that 3 part write up on motor/esc timing. If you want the most efficient setup, you need to keep the neutral plane in the right spot through the whole on track rpm range.

Last edited by waitwhat; 01-06-2019 at 05:41 PM.
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