I've been doing this class for 40 years, so I'll share the things we have tried before to show why spec tyres are a non-starter...
Originally Posted by
bdmpastx
Spec tires will not work. There are lots of variables at play here, temp, humidity, and the tires used in other classes conflict with foam tires we use. We have seen it at our track and lets face it, if your car can't make a run, it's no fun. If nothing but foam tires are allowed on the track, that is a different story. The Silica based tires from other classes seem to be the biggest contributor to fuzz and buildup on foam tires.
To which I'll add what we found when we tried it.
The shore hardness varies not just from sheet to sheet, but from the middle of the sheet to the edge of the sheet. So those who knew the supplier got the tyres from the middle of the sheet because they were softer and gave more grip...
And then we discovered that if you turn down the inside of the wheels to give more flex in the rim you could tune the car well and gain a couple of tenths on the other guys, So next we had people making wheels of different designs to change the flex...
And then we had people home-brewing their own additive that gave more grip...
And then we had people carrying multiple sets of different diameters to tune the grip to the track...
And then the wrap tyres came along and they were spec but cost twice the standard tyre..
And then we realised that a spec tyre was costing more than a free choice, so we stopped...
Originally Posted by
oeoeo327
If this is true, explain how WGT cars seem to run pretty well at practically every track, using a spec tire...
I ran a set of BSRs "purple stripe" spec 1/12 tires on a 13.5 car that runs pretty well on the current crop of green, blue, and double blue tires - and didn't notice a huge drop-off in performance that couldn't be addressed through chassis tuning. Spec tires CAN work - we simply need a few more people to get on board with giving the concept a try.
WGT cars have waaaayyyy more tyre than they need. Almost any tyre compound works on carpet. We use the WGT spec tyres and have and to make strict rules about additive to keep the playing field level. We find the CRC ones best because.... the rims are stiffer and larger diameter so you can run with less tyre on the rim.
We tried the BSR purple-stripe 12th tyres - they were about 2 tenths a lap slower than those using the standard pink/magenta combination everyone else was using, and on some tracks we have they were much slower than that.
Originally Posted by
Racermac73
Looks like 80% want spec tires and just like everything else in life the 20% making all the noise are fuck#@g everything up and are the first 20% to quit and move on to the next class. At this point it's time for the hardcore 12th scale guys to make this happen as new guys are getting fewer and fewer. Waiting much longer is going to leave the oldest and best class in ALL of electric rc racing extinct... Its really sad it has got to this point. Tire manufacturers are the ones truly against the change that needs to happen and I really don't care who this pisses off.
In the UK 100% do not want spec tyres. With our additives the default combination is pink/magenta and the best tyre is the JFT. 80% of people use that so we have spec tyres by default. The most popular tyres these days are JFT and CRC and there's nothing between them.
Originally Posted by
RedBullFiXX
I'm sure BSR will be very happy to sell spec tires to any club that wants such a thing
Nothing holding anyone back to do this
Well said - if people want spec tyres get together at the club and use them. If everyone did that you could have spec tyres by default.
Originally Posted by
InspGadgt
In the previous threads about spec tires the majority of racers were against it in 1/12th. 1/12th is the oldest class in RC on-road racing and it has never needed a spec tire. I don't think a spec tire will help make it bigger either. It somewhat works in WGT because of the heavier cars and the bigger difference in width from front to rear. But even with that we've had to do some more extreme things to get them to work...anyone remember truing off the yellow foam? Look at what is happening with WGT too...in the overall view of RC it is still a fairly new class, is it growing? Not really...at best it is stagnant and in some places it is shrinking. The thing holding pan car classes back in general is the fact that you have to cut tires. And with a spec tire that would still be a major obstacle.
Now I'm not necessarily advocating rubber tires either. Rubber tires in their current form simply do not work well on pan cars. If they did then the F1 classes would be more popular and not come and go over time like they have. This generation of F1 tires is far better than previous ones so I think they are getting closer. But they are not there yet. What keeps F1 coming back is the cool scale looks. Until someone puts some serious development time and effort into a rubber tire that handles much better then I think all our pan car classes are going to remain stagnant to dwindling.
To me...there in lies the solution for pan cars...better scale appearance and a rubber tire that works. I don't know if it is even possible...but I do think not enough energy has been directed toward it.
Again, well said. Ten years ago people were writing the death of 12th scale. With not a single spec tyres in sight it has risen from the ashes to be big again. Why? Mainly (here) because you no longer have to drive to the capacity of the cells so anyone can get into it, and also because the BL spec motors have brought the speeds closer together. BL has also stopped the black art with brushes that new drivers found almost impenetrable.
Rubber tyres have one contact patch and once that let goes the car is gone. Foam tyres have thousands of contact patches because they are not a homogenous material. If part of the tyre is slipping, another part is gripping, so the transition from slip to grip is progressive and easy to drive.
Over the years every form of rubber has been tried and in every case the cars are nasty to drive and put everyone off. If rubber tyres worked, we'd have them by now. They don't so we haven't.
Originally Posted by
gazza
As long as the spec foams are not on a spec wheel, I'm all for it in 17.5 & 13.5.
-1. If the wheel is not spec then see my comment above - everyone will be tuning their wheels not their tyres!!
It's a lovely idea with as much chance of happening as a cure for world hunger. If clubs want to do it to attract new drivers then it is entirely within their power to do so. The tyres are available from BSR. When drivers have a grasp of their car they can switch to any tyre for Regional and National competition.
Nothing in this world will draw National organisations to go to spec tyres. If it was that good an idea, Scotty would have done it by now at the IIC - he's done it for every class where it is viable. It's up to the clubs to get it done to draw in the drivers. When the drivers have a handle on their cars and the class, using different tyres at a bigger event will be taken entirely in their stride.