Ask The ROAR President - Rick Wilson
04-14-2005, 01:45 PM
#46
Around here, at Revelation, where the straight is over 160', it can make a difference.
It's one reason I'm not running much Nitro anymore - can't afford a motor that can actually compete. When I can run the infield as well as any, but get left behind on the straight - well, it's just not any fun.
To me, it's somewhat foolish. We WANT people to come and race yet we price this class out of most people's range. When the motor is more expensive than the CAR that it goes in, well something's wrong.
It's one reason I'm not running much Nitro anymore - can't afford a motor that can actually compete. When I can run the infield as well as any, but get left behind on the straight - well, it's just not any fun.
To me, it's somewhat foolish. We WANT people to come and race yet we price this class out of most people's range. When the motor is more expensive than the CAR that it goes in, well something's wrong.
04-14-2005, 02:19 PM
#47
Tech Master
Boomer,if you can't afford gas , you can't afford electric. They cost exactly the same,ALL YOU GOT TO SPEND !! Are you comming to San Antonio for this pan car race? If so, I hope I get a chance to met ya.
04-14-2005, 08:52 PM
#50
Locally we have a track class called Box Stock, basically you can run any of the RTR kits out there, but you can't change anything on the motor or suspension except position, can't even change springs....It is a popular class since it is truely cost controlled, the last couple of years we have had a very good turnout for this class...Basically about 350$ and you are good to go...Oh yeah, it is a rubber tire class as well....
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
04-15-2005, 12:59 AM
#51
can't even change springs? ouch - forces everyone to drive the same style. . .
Wardo - please don't make me come out there with my calculator. I've done this MANY a time. I can show all costs for two years total for 1/12th 4-cell mod, 6-cell pro10 stock, TC stock, TC Mod, 1/10th Nitro.
I'm not going to get back into costs of racing.
I'm speaking about the runaway cost of motors.
Wardo - please don't make me come out there with my calculator. I've done this MANY a time. I can show all costs for two years total for 1/12th 4-cell mod, 6-cell pro10 stock, TC stock, TC Mod, 1/10th Nitro.
I'm not going to get back into costs of racing.
I'm speaking about the runaway cost of motors.
04-15-2005, 05:13 AM
#52
Tech Master
I agree that motors got way out of hand, but when that first 400$
motor hit the market we all rushed out and bought one. There are some good 250$ motors out there, and with a little work, they will compete with 400$ ones. I remember 115$ battery packs, 350$ chargers, 175$ speed controllers, 275$ com lathes,300$ car kit,80$ motors,20$ pair of tires(tire, insert,rim).
To me, that is just as out of control as you think nitro motors are.
motor hit the market we all rushed out and bought one. There are some good 250$ motors out there, and with a little work, they will compete with 400$ ones. I remember 115$ battery packs, 350$ chargers, 175$ speed controllers, 275$ com lathes,300$ car kit,80$ motors,20$ pair of tires(tire, insert,rim).
To me, that is just as out of control as you think nitro motors are.
04-15-2005, 10:13 AM
#53
Easy solution would be a "claim" rule. Designate a specific price and anyone running the class can purchase another persons motor for that amount at the end of the race weekend. You must sell the motor or you are DQed.
Wonder why there aren't more classes like this concerning cost control.
Wonder why there aren't more classes like this concerning cost control.
04-15-2005, 10:58 AM
#54
Tech Master
I like that claiming rule! It works well in the IMCA classes. You have to finnish on the same lap to claim, and they can turn around and claim your motor. Hey ROAR, there is an idea I hope someone would look into.
04-18-2005, 03:41 AM
#56
I didn't want to open a can of worms, but I see some good ideas. I will agree, motor doesn't win you a race, but look at the track at Kissimmee, FL. The person with a fast engine will win their, three straights at almost 300ft, and a couple others around 100ft. without engine, your a pace car for the rest of the field. I see guys, no names, but when you look in the trailers, they have no less than 20 engines, all $400 or more, thats crazy!
I like the idea of "stock" engine class. Anybody who runs a mod motor, let them run in "outlaw".
I like the idea of "stock" engine class. Anybody who runs a mod motor, let them run in "outlaw".
04-18-2005, 10:18 AM
#57
Tech Master
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I saw the recommendation regarding "claiming rules" for the engines. I agree that there are some positive merits for using such rules. I will now offer that this should be implemented at the local level for the club and local series racing. We go to the Nationals level and it is up to the drivers to bring their best. Racing has always been associated with the perception that the people who win spend the most money. I don't necessaryily agree with that, but we are talking about leveling the playing field to make the racing more fair. Well, another thing about racing is that it isn't fair. Someone will always have the advantage, and they usually earn it by working at it. That could take the form of practice, fresh parts, better parts, better driving skillz, and so on.
ROAR is not interested in taking away the creativity of the driver from improving their performance. We have rules that control the configuration of the vehicle, but that is to establish limits that enhance the racing. Face it, someone could bring a vehicle that would make a mockery of the racing, regardless of its speed.
ROAR has also had to deal with products offered by suppliers that don't meet some of our rules. We have taken the approach to consider what is best for the drivers and the event when addressing these situations.
One of the topics mentioned here is the cost of the engines. We have not put a price limit on nitro engines for a specific reason. Most of the price increases have been related to the exchange rate of the American dollar when compared to other currency. None of us has any control over that.
Another issue is the availability of the so called "stock engines." The problem here is that the manufacturers have discontinued many of those type engines in favor of the all out, high performance engines. Part of the reason to discontinue some of the engines was due to the market. In this case, the market was driven by the drivers need for more speed, thus a higher demand for the high performance engine and a reduced demand for the "stock engine."
I will stop here because this post is getting pretty long. I know that some of you will have comment to the information I have offered. It will be interesting to see what comments come forward. But please take from this that ROAR is paying attention to many of these issues that have been mentioned. The unfortunate thing is that it is out of ROAR's control and also out of your control. The only thing we can do is be patient with the conditions and search for those products that will enhance your performance. They are there and you will be 99.9% as competitive as possible. If that isn't good enough, I am sorry. I don't know how to help you.
ROAR is not interested in taking away the creativity of the driver from improving their performance. We have rules that control the configuration of the vehicle, but that is to establish limits that enhance the racing. Face it, someone could bring a vehicle that would make a mockery of the racing, regardless of its speed.
ROAR has also had to deal with products offered by suppliers that don't meet some of our rules. We have taken the approach to consider what is best for the drivers and the event when addressing these situations.
One of the topics mentioned here is the cost of the engines. We have not put a price limit on nitro engines for a specific reason. Most of the price increases have been related to the exchange rate of the American dollar when compared to other currency. None of us has any control over that.
Another issue is the availability of the so called "stock engines." The problem here is that the manufacturers have discontinued many of those type engines in favor of the all out, high performance engines. Part of the reason to discontinue some of the engines was due to the market. In this case, the market was driven by the drivers need for more speed, thus a higher demand for the high performance engine and a reduced demand for the "stock engine."
I will stop here because this post is getting pretty long. I know that some of you will have comment to the information I have offered. It will be interesting to see what comments come forward. But please take from this that ROAR is paying attention to many of these issues that have been mentioned. The unfortunate thing is that it is out of ROAR's control and also out of your control. The only thing we can do is be patient with the conditions and search for those products that will enhance your performance. They are there and you will be 99.9% as competitive as possible. If that isn't good enough, I am sorry. I don't know how to help you.
04-18-2005, 07:13 PM
#58
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Originally posted by Boomer
Personally, I think that there needs to be a Stock and Modified class to Nitro. Stock means that there has been NO modification inside the motor. Top 3 to get torn down and DQ'd if there has been mod inside. Work on down the list DQ'ing as needed until you find your 1-2-3.
Personally, I think that there needs to be a Stock and Modified class to Nitro. Stock means that there has been NO modification inside the motor. Top 3 to get torn down and DQ'd if there has been mod inside. Work on down the list DQ'ing as needed until you find your 1-2-3.
The other side of this is suppose we commit to this level of tech. What will be the standard sleeve, piston, button and crank to compare to? Does this mean that all manufactures will have to produce identical parts? Or will the tech people need to a sample of each brand trackside to compare? Kind of a tough situation.
04-18-2005, 07:14 PM
#59
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Originally posted by TigeRyan
Locally we have a track class called Box Stock, basically you can run any of the RTR kits out there, but you can't change anything on the motor or suspension except position, can't even change springs....It is a popular class since it is truely cost controlled, the last couple of years we have had a very good turnout for this class...Basically about 350$ and you are good to go...Oh yeah, it is a rubber tire class as well....
Just a thought...
Locally we have a track class called Box Stock, basically you can run any of the RTR kits out there, but you can't change anything on the motor or suspension except position, can't even change springs....It is a popular class since it is truely cost controlled, the last couple of years we have had a very good turnout for this class...Basically about 350$ and you are good to go...Oh yeah, it is a rubber tire class as well....
Just a thought...
04-18-2005, 07:15 PM
#60
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Originally posted by JKA
Easy solution would be a "claim" rule. Designate a specific price and anyone running the class can purchase another persons motor for that amount at the end of the race weekend. You must sell the motor or you are DQed.
Wonder why there aren't more classes like this concerning cost control.
Easy solution would be a "claim" rule. Designate a specific price and anyone running the class can purchase another persons motor for that amount at the end of the race weekend. You must sell the motor or you are DQed.
Wonder why there aren't more classes like this concerning cost control.
All of my equipment and cars are 100%, 100% of the time. However, there is no chance that I would participate in an event where someone could buy my engine. I will sit that one out. Tech all you want, but what's mine is mine.