TOPIC: how to use regionals to qualify for nationals
10-14-2004, 03:45 PM
#61
Re: Regionals
Originally posted by ROARprez
Hey Boomer we should talk - 310-940-6171.
What part of So. Cal are you in? Lunch sometime?
In many parts of your ideas we agree, in some maybe not but that's what makes a good conversation and learning for both points of view. Give me a call.
Hey Boomer we should talk - 310-940-6171.
What part of So. Cal are you in? Lunch sometime?
In many parts of your ideas we agree, in some maybe not but that's what makes a good conversation and learning for both points of view. Give me a call.
10-23-2004, 01:09 PM
#62
This is an excellent idea by ROAR. Rick Hohwart also has excellent ideas. If racing can be seen as a progression, and have a ladder to work up, it will be more attractive, since we all want what we can't have, right?
I still believe that we need SkipGear's points system in the Regions though. i think that is another "product" which would make ROAR more valuable.
I still believe that we need SkipGear's points system in the Regions though. i think that is another "product" which would make ROAR more valuable.
11-04-2004, 02:09 PM
#63
This is a must for ROAR. If we are to grow, there must be incentive to join and be involved in the process. As outlined by Rick Howart, the concept is sound. One additional way to qualify; place in top ten in previous National and compete in current year Regional (regardless of placement). This would give the more competitive regions a little more leway.
I feel that you should qualify in the Regional of the same year as the National.
In the previous year that this was implemented the host club for the nat's complained of lower attendance. This should not be considered as 250 is plenty to (especially since they will be the top 250) guarantee a competitive event. Quality of the event suffers with extremely high participation.
I feel that you should qualify in the Regional of the same year as the National.
In the previous year that this was implemented the host club for the nat's complained of lower attendance. This should not be considered as 250 is plenty to (especially since they will be the top 250) guarantee a competitive event. Quality of the event suffers with extremely high participation.
11-05-2004, 06:36 AM
#64
I like the whole idea about using the regionals to qualify. Many people have been laying out lately just because winning it or placing well doesn't get you anywhere.
Another worthy point- Ever any thought to re-evaluating the regions? Take a look at my region for example, region 3. Our turnouts for regionals have been pretty down, and for one reason of that is the square mileage. It has been proven the likely hood of people traveling these long distances to regionals is not happening. Examples:
AL to NC, Western TN to Eastern GA. There are people looking at 8 hr. drives to regionals, and scratch the idea of flying to a regional event, ESPECIALLY if it doesn't yield grounds for anything beyond it.
Another worthy point- Ever any thought to re-evaluating the regions? Take a look at my region for example, region 3. Our turnouts for regionals have been pretty down, and for one reason of that is the square mileage. It has been proven the likely hood of people traveling these long distances to regionals is not happening. Examples:
AL to NC, Western TN to Eastern GA. There are people looking at 8 hr. drives to regionals, and scratch the idea of flying to a regional event, ESPECIALLY if it doesn't yield grounds for anything beyond it.
11-05-2004, 08:40 AM
#65
if you think that is long, don't even think about the region around Montana and the Dakotas. . .
But that's partly the point, I think. We need to make the Regionals something TO COME TO.
I still stand by having regional winner from year 1 qual for nat at year 2 (it just gets too expensive for those who have to travel and the time frame is always just too tight)
But no matter what, having a qualification system will upgrade the prestige of the National competitions.
now - if you really want an "Open" competition, then make a "ROAR National Open" and have that champion called the Open champion.
But that's partly the point, I think. We need to make the Regionals something TO COME TO.
I still stand by having regional winner from year 1 qual for nat at year 2 (it just gets too expensive for those who have to travel and the time frame is always just too tight)
But no matter what, having a qualification system will upgrade the prestige of the National competitions.
now - if you really want an "Open" competition, then make a "ROAR National Open" and have that champion called the Open champion.
11-05-2004, 09:37 AM
#66
Unfortunately many of the regions are quite spread out. But, it is due to population density (ROAR membership density). Increasing prestige and interest in Regionals could produce greater membership in roar, and eventual reworking of the regions.
I feal strongly that you should qualify in the same year. ie 05 regions for 05 Nat's. Going for the next year will reduce enthusiasm and excitement for the whole concept. Most people that go to Nats, go to more than one big race per year. The whole idea is to give the Regionals the prestige of being considered a BIG race. Lets shift the attention to ROAR chapionship events! Not the KyoshoOFNAMUGEN challenge.
I feal strongly that you should qualify in the same year. ie 05 regions for 05 Nat's. Going for the next year will reduce enthusiasm and excitement for the whole concept. Most people that go to Nats, go to more than one big race per year. The whole idea is to give the Regionals the prestige of being considered a BIG race. Lets shift the attention to ROAR chapionship events! Not the KyoshoOFNAMUGEN challenge.
11-05-2004, 10:25 AM
#67
In Region 8 we are seeing this trend over the last few years. The multi-day events are just not drawing the racers. Travel costs and room/board expense has knocked down the car count at these events. We have seen a huge increase in the 1 Day event attendence. Racers are willing to travel and race and get it all done in one day vs the multi-day event. We have what we call the Bragging Rights race.... 1 day event, no trophies, cost is around a normal race day entry and we see racers from Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas and Texas all show up. These events will draw over the 150 entry mark each time. At on road regionals in region 8 we had 8 mod sedans and 6 stock sedans show. This was at a great big new track in Kansas City.
I also attended my first Nats this year in Portland. Qualifying put me with racers of my same pace....I had a BLAST and will look to attend one again. I am struggling with the thought that the regionals would get more prestegious from being the only way to qualify for the Nats. For racers that are not close to the Nats that year it is not much of a motivating factor. If I am in Kansas and the Nats are in New York...not going to get me to the regionals any more then just going to the race because I want to. Plus All the racers that raced in Region 8 would have gotten to go to Nats because there were only an "A" main.
Good ideas and ideas are needed to improve our hobby.
Thanks
Jeff
I also attended my first Nats this year in Portland. Qualifying put me with racers of my same pace....I had a BLAST and will look to attend one again. I am struggling with the thought that the regionals would get more prestegious from being the only way to qualify for the Nats. For racers that are not close to the Nats that year it is not much of a motivating factor. If I am in Kansas and the Nats are in New York...not going to get me to the regionals any more then just going to the race because I want to. Plus All the racers that raced in Region 8 would have gotten to go to Nats because there were only an "A" main.
Good ideas and ideas are needed to improve our hobby.
Thanks
Jeff
11-05-2004, 11:10 AM
#68
Tech Master
A good economy is what we need to improve racing. In Texas, eveerybody is complaining racing is down, but we have alot more tracks so the people are more spread out. When San Antonio had one track, it had 50-60 racers now it has 4 tracks with15 racers.
11-05-2004, 05:18 PM
#69
Tech Apprentice
Sean, How many races do you attend each year besides the nats?
Surely you could give up the "kyosho Challenge" type races and race a regional event instead?
Regionals are losing their meaning in some places and have already become more or less defunct in others.
The manufacturer's races and the "Big" annual club races have taken all the racers from the Regionals.
As long as the nats are the only way into the worlds, Roar will continue to have good attendance there, however, the Nats will be all they have if the trend continues, and the nats will pale in comparison to the races being put on by other organizations.
Pro-Series is HUGE, and it is in it's infancy. The interest in the finals is already comparable to the interst in the nats. In a few years, it will make the nats look like a regional looks now.
I think soon people will be saying that they have too many Por-Sereies races to attend to try to get to the nats just toqualify for the worlds.
I don't see the argument that attending a regional in order to go to the nats would take up too much more time. Forgo some other race and participate at the regional level. Support the races that support the Organization that gives us the Nats. ROAR means a lot more than the nats. Not all of us are going to the nats.. Ever. The regionals are hurting.. It needs to be fixed or more and more average racers will see no reason to join ROAR
Surely you could give up the "kyosho Challenge" type races and race a regional event instead?
Regionals are losing their meaning in some places and have already become more or less defunct in others.
The manufacturer's races and the "Big" annual club races have taken all the racers from the Regionals.
As long as the nats are the only way into the worlds, Roar will continue to have good attendance there, however, the Nats will be all they have if the trend continues, and the nats will pale in comparison to the races being put on by other organizations.
Pro-Series is HUGE, and it is in it's infancy. The interest in the finals is already comparable to the interst in the nats. In a few years, it will make the nats look like a regional looks now.
I think soon people will be saying that they have too many Por-Sereies races to attend to try to get to the nats just toqualify for the worlds.
I don't see the argument that attending a regional in order to go to the nats would take up too much more time. Forgo some other race and participate at the regional level. Support the races that support the Organization that gives us the Nats. ROAR means a lot more than the nats. Not all of us are going to the nats.. Ever. The regionals are hurting.. It needs to be fixed or more and more average racers will see no reason to join ROAR
11-05-2004, 05:33 PM
#70
Tech Elite
Thread Starter
wow...
well, since I know Sean's racing schedule - quite a few!! And, I can honestly say he attends only one NON ROAR event annually - the Cactus Classic.. the rest in the past three years have been ROAR events.... regionals, nationals and state events....
Great stuff here guys!!!! Believe me.. ROAR is reading this and this has already been a topic of discussion. I can see changes coming because this conversation is going in a good direction!!
well, since I know Sean's racing schedule - quite a few!! And, I can honestly say he attends only one NON ROAR event annually - the Cactus Classic.. the rest in the past three years have been ROAR events.... regionals, nationals and state events....
Great stuff here guys!!!! Believe me.. ROAR is reading this and this has already been a topic of discussion. I can see changes coming because this conversation is going in a good direction!!
11-05-2004, 07:27 PM
#71
Region 8 offroad regional attendance has always been at 200 entries or more when it is at north missouri raceway, a centrally located facility. As for the onroad regionals, in our region you have to look at who races what and when and Region 8 is a offroad dominated region year round. Onroad is second, but only in the winter.
11-05-2004, 07:28 PM
#72
And I still think my idea of using regionals as a presort to nationals qualifying heats is the best way to do it. Keep nationals open to anyone, but have regionals mean something.
11-05-2004, 09:03 PM
#73
you mean that regional participants get first dibs on qualifying heats? I'm not really sure how that raises the stature of either the regional or national races.
Or - if you mean that regional participants get first dibs on A mains - that actually dilutes the national since if Joe-Three-Wheels participates in a regional and, thus, has dibs on an A main (or even a high qualifier) all that's going to do is make a joke of the A-Main (or pith off the guys in his qualifier).
I've raced in a Nat where my qualifier quite literally had someone that everyone (everyone) had to dodge every single lap. As each qualifier went by, you prayed that you were not seeded into his. I've also seen this in other high-profile races.
This type of qualification system is not new to sports- you can find examples all over, all the way from NCAA to HS Football (on a state-wide scale, using counties), etc.
duneland - if you were to keep the 05 Nats in the same year as the 05 Reg, you'd have to make darned sure that Nats happened late enough in the year that NO regional took place after it.
for instance, this year's Nat Onroad has already happened - in April. Did any regionals happen after that? I'd be willing to bet on it.
With as many Nationals that we have, we'd have to do a LOT more scheduling than the National Committees already do in order to make sure that everything lines up - ALL regional competitions MUST happen prior to July so that ALL SEVEN (?) Nationals can happen in August/September (exception being carpet which can delay its running for two months).
I don't see that working.
But high placement at the 05 Regional qualifying you for the 06 National gives time for plans to be made, and keeps the schedules much more flexible for both drivers and for tracks/race directors/national committees.
Or - if you mean that regional participants get first dibs on A mains - that actually dilutes the national since if Joe-Three-Wheels participates in a regional and, thus, has dibs on an A main (or even a high qualifier) all that's going to do is make a joke of the A-Main (or pith off the guys in his qualifier).
I've raced in a Nat where my qualifier quite literally had someone that everyone (everyone) had to dodge every single lap. As each qualifier went by, you prayed that you were not seeded into his. I've also seen this in other high-profile races.
This type of qualification system is not new to sports- you can find examples all over, all the way from NCAA to HS Football (on a state-wide scale, using counties), etc.
duneland - if you were to keep the 05 Nats in the same year as the 05 Reg, you'd have to make darned sure that Nats happened late enough in the year that NO regional took place after it.
for instance, this year's Nat Onroad has already happened - in April. Did any regionals happen after that? I'd be willing to bet on it.
With as many Nationals that we have, we'd have to do a LOT more scheduling than the National Committees already do in order to make sure that everything lines up - ALL regional competitions MUST happen prior to July so that ALL SEVEN (?) Nationals can happen in August/September (exception being carpet which can delay its running for two months).
I don't see that working.
But high placement at the 05 Regional qualifying you for the 06 National gives time for plans to be made, and keeps the schedules much more flexible for both drivers and for tracks/race directors/national committees.
11-05-2004, 10:47 PM
#74
ugh, here is my idea, again...
A thru C mains at regionals get dibs on nats entries with a seperate deadline before "open enrollment".
Then use the ability function to presort the heats with A-main drivers from all across the country put together, then B's and C's and then open to everyone else, kind of like a pre-sort to qualifying. This way if you placed high at your regional you are at least assured that you get a heat with drivers of your level.
This puts some sort of emphasis on going to regionals, and doesn't eliminate people from going to nats if they want to.
A thru C mains at regionals get dibs on nats entries with a seperate deadline before "open enrollment".
Then use the ability function to presort the heats with A-main drivers from all across the country put together, then B's and C's and then open to everyone else, kind of like a pre-sort to qualifying. This way if you placed high at your regional you are at least assured that you get a heat with drivers of your level.
This puts some sort of emphasis on going to regionals, and doesn't eliminate people from going to nats if they want to.
11-06-2004, 05:38 AM
#75
Tech Apprentice
Dawn, I didn't mean to accuse Shawn of not supporting ROAR races. Perhaps I was not clear enough.
That is the main excuse I hear about not requiring ragional attendance.
"That means I will have to attend the regional. I already go to enough races and that is one more that will take away from my family time."
This excuse comes from people racing every weekend and hitting all the "Big" club races. My argument is that if they are truly that strapped for time, they should forgo the annual "Big" club race that supprts XYZ hobby shop and instead attend the Regional that supports ROAR and the NAts.
Maybe I'm way out there with my belief, but I would like to see Regional Attendance Mandatory for Nats Participation. And in time, I would Like to see State Race attendance Mandatory for Regional attendance. That is a whole other discussion I'll save for a few years down the road!
That is the main excuse I hear about not requiring ragional attendance.
"That means I will have to attend the regional. I already go to enough races and that is one more that will take away from my family time."
This excuse comes from people racing every weekend and hitting all the "Big" club races. My argument is that if they are truly that strapped for time, they should forgo the annual "Big" club race that supprts XYZ hobby shop and instead attend the Regional that supports ROAR and the NAts.
Maybe I'm way out there with my belief, but I would like to see Regional Attendance Mandatory for Nats Participation. And in time, I would Like to see State Race attendance Mandatory for Regional attendance.
That is a whole other discussion I'll save for a few years down the road!