ancjr

I realize that for many this may be the billionth time this question has been asked ... but I have searched for quite a while among this and other forums and have not seen anything specificly relevant to my situation.

My brother and I both have XXX-SCT trucks powered by Novak Ballistic 10.5 motors and Orion R10 Pro 160A ESC, and identical 2S, 50C, 5200mah lipo batteries.

Himself being the lesser experienced driver, I helped him set the gearing via temperature and retarded the timing on the endbell by 5 degrees as a saftey buffer. His esc software is factory stock. After exhausting a 5200 mah lipo, he runs a max of 125-130F.

Myself being a little more experienced and a lot more adventurous, updated the esc software to V1.66_120107 and used the Orion programmer to experiment with boost and turbo settings. Having assumed that 1 degree on the endbell equalled 1 degree in the ESC, I reasoned that it would be possible to customize the powerband of the motor by retarding the timing on the endbell of the motor and "adding back in" 25 degrees of timing via boost (no turbo) in the ESC. My result was less than spectacular. I decided to further investigate why this was so. Searching around revealed little relevant data - I took matters into my own hands.

In side-by-side testing in our makeshift laboratory - a 150 foot clean & level blacktop "drag strip" - using identical trucks save for timing settings varied on my truck in 5 degree increments via endbell and ESC. Leaving his truck stock for the duration of our testing, we ran multiple trials. I could establish absolutely no discernable effect in acceleration nor top speed of the Orion ESC boost settings other than making the motor hotter - and my truck slower - as I increase the ESC's boost setting in degrees. The endbell timing effect is exactly as I have read and understood - very similar to going up and down in gear ratio re: temp, acceleration and top speed.

So ... am I doing something wrong?

emag521

iTrader: (2)

You could be cancelling each other out by playing with the end bell timing and the esc at the same time. Leave the end bell at the Factory setting then try your results again. Only adjust 1 thing at a time. If you are lowering your end bell timing (adding torque lesser RPM) and then advancing the timing in you ESC you may be cancelling the effect of the timing boost from the ESC.

ancjr

That still leaves me with no rational way to apply the feature, being that 5 + 25 != 30

Dave H

Can you list all of your ESC settings? Might help provide clues on what's happening.

ancjr

For the testing, both vehicles used used 18T pinion and 84 spur. The control vehicle used 25 degrees endbell timing for all tests. The test vehicle varied endbell timing 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 degrees and ESC timing by 5 degrees in all possible permutations that totaled "30 degrees" over a multitude of runs. The following ESC settings were used on both vehicles - only boost was varied on mine (menu # in parens):

1 Running mode: For/Rev/Brake (2)
2 Drag brake force: 10% (3)
3 Cuttoff voltage: 3.2v (5)
4 Punch: 3 (3)
5 Max brake: (6)
6 Max reverse: 25% (1)
7 Initial brake: Drag brake (1)
8 Neutral range: 6% (1)
9 Overheat protection: on (1)

(the following options are not available on the stock controller which was using factory firmware and the programming button - the test vehicle used updated firmware and the Orion programmer to access these functions)

10 Boost timing: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 degrees - varied for each test
11 Boost start: 8000
12 Boost Accel: 750 rpm
13 Turbo timing: 0
14 Turbo slope rate: Fastest
15 Turbo delay: Off

I ran additional tests with the test vehicle using 0 esc timing and only varying endbell timing to 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 degrees to verify the results. The test vehicle at its slowest finished one length (aprox 14") behind the stock vehicle at its slowest (5 degrees endbell timing, 25 degrees boost) in 150ft, but was side-by-side with 0 ESC timing and 30 degrees endbell timing. We even did less formal testing - running side-by-side at speed to see if our 150ft course were too short to "top out" the motors which only confirmed the test vehicle did not have the top speed of the control vehicle if there were any amount of ESC boost in the test vehicle.

Shawn68z

iTrader: (6)

The Timing for boost does not equal one degree on the ESC. Its closer to 2/3 of a degree per step. I am not totally familiar with the Orion, but I believe its made by hobbywing, so your boost goes from 0-64 STEPS, which is 24 - 28 degs total timing from the ESC.


Your theory is correct though regarding timing. Run as little end bell timing as possible, and use the boost from the ESC> This will give you more low end torque, and still retain the top end RPMS.

For my cars, (Onroad) I have setup 50 Boost, and 16 turbo, then adjust the endbell for temperature.

Cheers,
Shawn.

Dave H

ESC boost is a little trickier than endbell timing no doubt. More to it than just one value, as the timing advance changes with RPM, need to consider the boost start and boost accel values. Both of those are fairly high it seems, so overall your test truck has a lot less timing than the control truck. Quite possibly too little.

The ESC boost doesn't start until 8,000 RPM, then apparently only progresses 1 degree for each additional 750RPM. Wouldn't have equivalent timing until 26,750 RPM in your original test, assuming for the moment it is 1 degree per setting. Not surprising the higher static endbell timing won the drag race.

For reference, although I only see one 10.5 setup sheet on the R10 site, for a touring car, it lists boost start of 3000 and boost accel of 600. Doesn't appear to list endbell timing.

From what I've seen, boost isn't used so much to reduce low RPM timing, maybe some, but rather to jack it up at high RPMs. Generally requires lower gearing than no boost for best results. The performance increase comes from increased revs more than increased torque best I can tell.

Suggest experimenting with more end bell timing, lower boost start and boost accel values, and possibly lower gearing. Of course keep tabs on temps.

While boost is certainly entertaining to play with, boosted mod in off road can be a little tricky to control with the limited traction and can be less predictable while flying between jumps, something the on road guys don't have to contend with so much.

btrukr

iTrader: (78)

depends if you need low end or top end? You'll get aggressive lowend the more timing in the can, taylors how the motor rev's. The esc will extend your topend and no they don't swap 1-1 because they make difference on the oppisite things. Tight technical tracks need big can timing and no esc timing because your going stop and go many times a lap. A big outdoor track is perfect for a good esc like speed passion or tekin or a novak havoc. you gear it fast for the short straight and boost it to go down the long straightaway.

ancjr

All things considered, boost is quite possibly useless to me if all it can do is increase top end. The fastest guys at my local track (which is tight & can be quite slippery) run unboosted 13.5T in "mod" class. I was actually hoping to tailor the bottom end to more closely emulate the 13.5 at low revs - lower the KV - and then boost the top end back into 10.5 territory. I know my test settings might not have been optimal in accomplishing that per-se - I was merely trying to establish if boost functioned in a way that could possibly accomplish my goal. I also have some doubts as to weather this can be done without a large loss of overall efficiency. Certainly the least effort solution would be tossing in a 13.5T stator...