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HOBBYWING TECH SUPPORT 1/8 & 1/10 OFF ROAD

Old 03-03-2016, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sacmiata
question for those in the know would a really hot 17.5 like a schuur speed select be held back by a justock xr10.

Been pretty happy with my esc but my motor combinations have been all budget based and wanted to get the best of the best and was wondering if my esc will be a limitng factor vs a better 2.1 or 3.1 hobbywing.
Typically your battery will be the limiting factory before the ESC. You can do the math to figure out where the restriction is. Take your battery C rating(s) and multiply it by the mah. That will give you your batteries approximate burst and continuous ratings.

If those numbers are higher than what your ESC is rated for, that will restrict your performance. If your ESC is rated higher then your battery, you are good. The motor is going to take everything you can give it; more is always better, but there are limits to what we can provide the motor (physically and monetarily). There is a reason people charge at super high amperage and run top of the line batteries.

I hope this helps. If something doesn't make sense just ask and I'll try to clarify.
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Old 03-03-2016, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sacmiata
question for those in the know would a really hot 17.5 like a schuur speed select be held back by a justock xr10.

Been pretty happy with my esc but my motor combinations have been all budget based and wanted to get the best of the best and was wondering if my esc will be a limitng factor vs a better 2.1 or 3.1 hobbywing.
the ESC can be.

If you're talking about limiting factor in terms of overall speed then driving ability > electrics. I know of a guy who is running a $60 ESC (HK turbo ESC) and is getting some of the fastest laps verse guys running ESC's that have been triple the cost (but he maxes out the turbo/boost as I've been told).
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:48 PM
  #10353  
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Originally Posted by 55Guy
Thanks I had installed the just stock yesterday and was going to sell the xrun 60A one. But I think I will hold on to it so I can try it to compare. Thanks Bill
Bill,
I would like to add a couple things to flamingtire's excellent advice in post #10348 above.

#1 - Wire size (gauge), be sure your running at least 14ga wire, 12ga is better. Larger diameter wire cause's much less resistance than the smaller size's. Less resistance = less heat & related issue's.

#2 - in the RC boating (electric) community guys like to allow for at least 30% overhead in their setups. I do it with my truck setups as well. Like FT said, more (higher amp rating) is always a good thing.

Example: you have a motor that's rated at 80-amps at the moment of peak efficient/amp draw, add 30% to that = 104-amps. So you would want an ESC rated at 104-amps. There's no harm in rounding down to 100-amps, BUT, going to 120A ESC is a better choice because it gives you room to grow.

Most of my ESC's (all HW's) are 3~4yrs old & still running strong. What if I would have bought 35A / 45A ESC's back then?? I would need to replace them now that my needs have grown. The eZ-Run 60A SL in my custom made Slash LCG (see attached) was purchased Jan 2012.

There's also the fact that motor specs are never a guarantee. Just because the specs say it pulls "X" amount of amps doesn't make so, lotta variables involved. Those ratings should be used as guide, not the gospel.

When I got my HW SC10 ESC back in Jan 2013, 70-amps seemed plenty. Who knew back then that we would running 4-pole amp hog motors in 2016?? Certainly not me!
Heck, there's a guy on FleaBay selling Leopard motors. He's got several 4-pole 3650 size motors that are pulling mid 70's to mid 80's-amp range. AND, those are not ultra high KV motors either. Were talkin 3400~3600kv range, bout right for a SCT. He's got a couple motors that are in the 100+ amp range

#3 - Features. As FT stated, the XR10 has more programmable items. Same holds true when comparing the eZ-Run SL series to the eZ-Run SC10\SC8's (both have been retired). The latter two have 2-more programmable items, motor direction & number of LiPo's cells. Lotta guys (myself included) don't like the LiPo cell count auto-detect. We prefer to specify the number of cells. The supplied wires are also much heavier gauge than those supplied with the "SL" series - 12ga vs 18ga.

HW replaced the SC8 with this excellent water proof model... http://www.hobbywingdirect.com/produ...run-esc-wp-sc8 one of the many nice things about those is that they come with a small plate that attaches to the bottom with small flat head screws. The "ears" line up perfectly with the screw boss's used by the Traxxas VXL-3s units. I'm sure they line up well with the mounting points in other popular SCT's as well, not mention buggy's & truggy's.

Hope that helps...
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Last edited by MDK_187; 03-05-2016 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:04 AM
  #10354  
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Originally Posted by flamingtire
Typically your battery will be the limiting factory before the ESC. You can do the math to figure out where the restriction is. Take your battery C rating(s) and multiply it by the mah. That will give you your batteries approximate burst and continuous ratings.

If those numbers are higher than what your ESC is rated for, that will restrict your performance. If your ESC is rated higher then your battery, you are good. The motor is going to take everything you can give it; more is always better, but there are limits to what we can provide the motor (physically and monetarily). There is a reason people charge at super high amperage and run top of the line batteries.

I hope this helps. If something doesn't make sense just ask and I'll try to clarify.
Yeah I have been running 90c 4200mah shorty batteries and top speed wise I think a justock will keep up with any 17.5 but I had a speed passion before and I feel like I lost alittle pop out of the corners. Running punch level 10 and was concerned that using alittle more high strung 17.5 would only make it feel less punchy.

I wonder if the justock has less ability to deal with inrush current then the larger esc's when not running dynamic timing.
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Old 03-04-2016, 01:31 PM
  #10355  
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Originally Posted by sacmiata
Yeah I have been running 90c 4200mah shorty batteries and top speed wise I think a justock will keep up with any 17.5 but I had a speed passion before and I feel like I lost a little pop out of the corners. Running punch level 10 and was concerned that using a little more high strung 17.5 would only make it feel less punchy.

I wonder if the justock has less ability to deal with in rush current then the larger esc's when not running dynamic timing.
Which of the Justock ESC's do you have?? I'm @ HW's website... http://www.hobbywingdirect.com/search?q=justock - as you can see, there's quite a few variants of that model.

...I think a justock will keep up with any 17.5...
The blue legacy model is rated @ 45A continuous - the newer black XR10 is rated @ 60A continuous. 90c batteries should provide more than enough pop for your setup.

Can't believe your getting away with the punch set @10 Dang dude, if I set the punch that high the truck (applies to all 5 Trax rigs I have) would just go around in circles (donuts)
The 60A esc in the Slash LCG pictured above is set at 3. 3900Kv HW motor, yeah it's one of those finned 380 in a 540 can jobbies that alot of people dog on. But I promise you, that car hauls a$$ on 2S, on 3S (SkyLiPo 4000mAh 40c) it's freeking crazy fast.

Son-Uva Digger - HW SC10(70A) ESC with 3300Kv finned motor, punch is at 5 and it's a hand full there. Batt = 2S 30C continuous / 45C burst.

Motors: I was checking out the Speed Passion 3500Kv (SP000268) model during my motor search for the Stam4x4 mentioned previously. Pretty darn hard to find info about those motors on the net. Did manage to find a couple charts (attached them) with specs for the different models, the 17.5T is rated at 16A. The instructions that came with my Atomik motor (also attached) says they're 17.5T motor is also rated at 16A.

Think it's safe to say that all those motors are 2-pole, 4-pole motors generally pull a lot more amps.

ESC: Even if you have the legacy model, you have plenty of overhead (29A) for a (2-pole) 17.5T motor, I explained "ESC overhead" in the post above. If the performance loss happened after you replaced the SP motor with a different brand, I would be looking at the motor before the ESC as a source of performance loss.

Don't know if HW has "special" firmware's for the Justocks, they do for the XeRun's, adds some special stuff not found in the normal as supplied FW.

Here's the firmware revision list... http://www.hobbywing.com/Upload/soft...ESC_readme.txt - to update FW you'll will need the LCD program box if don't already have one.
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Last edited by MDK_187; 03-06-2016 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:15 PM
  #10356  
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Yeah it's the newer xr10. Verified firmware is the newer v1-509 version. I thought about downgrading to the older 508 firmware but doubt that would make a difference.

With the same motor/gearing between esc's on a eco power motor the car just feels like it's has alittle less punch.....its not significantly less but feels noticible.

I have tried the punch from 7 to 10 and haven't noticed much if any difference. I can get it alittle squirelly on the back straight but it's an area of the track lighter on traction. Otherwise it's pretty manageable. 2wd buggy and some good sauced up tires on a clay track you can really lay on it.


The batteries are about a year old now - turnigy nano techs that are always stored properly and never ran to even the Lv cutoff. They might be the problem.

I think I might borrow someone's batteries and see if it's a battery issue.
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Old 03-04-2016, 04:43 PM
  #10357  
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The V3.1 looks sweet but $186? I'd just get an R10 Stock and pocket the $51....
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Old 03-04-2016, 04:49 PM
  #10358  
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Originally Posted by thecman26
The V3.1 looks sweet but $186? I'd just get an R10 Stock and pocket the $51....
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

i have both, just the r10 stock is not soldered to anything. i bought it for my losi 22 i am building. I will know by tuesday how much of a difference there is between them. The other difference will be the motor. One will be a reedy mach2 13.5 the other is the hobbywing v10 g2 13.5. I already know the v10 is faster than the reedy, but i will be able to tell if there is any real difference in teh smoothness or braking etc.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by prosport
I'm using a HW V2.1 esc as I previously mentioned, How do I check the output voltage of the Castle 10a BEC? Do I just unplug it from the receiver with radio and car turned on and try to safely check it with a voltmeter on the black and red wires of the receiver connector? Thanks!
Anyone know how to make sure the BEC is doing it's job properly? I don't want to do something stupid and fry my HW esc. Thanks!
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:40 PM
  #10360  
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Originally Posted by sacmiata
Yeah I have been running 90c 4200mah shorty batteries and top speed wise I think a justock will keep up with any 17.5 but I had a speed passion before and I feel like I lost alittle pop out of the corners. Running punch level 10 and was concerned that using alittle more high strung 17.5 would only make it feel less punchy.

I wonder if the justock has less ability to deal with inrush current then the larger esc's when not running dynamic timing.
Just remember a high RPM stator (short stack) will always have a less punchy feel then a standard stator (for example a D4 1s stator vs a regular D4). Life is about compromises
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by thecman26
The V3.1 looks sweet but $186? I'd just get an R10 Stock and pocket the $51....
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Note you are comparing a "stock" ESC to a "mod" ESC.

I am a bit bias, but I believe the V3.1 is the best 1/10 ESC you can buy as far as capability, options, value, weight, size, etc.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sacmiata
Yeah it's the newer xr10. Verified firmware is the newer v1-509 version. I thought about downgrading to the older 508 firmware but doubt that would make a difference.

With the same motor/gearing between esc's on a eco power motor the car just feels like it's has a little less punch.....its not significantly less but feels noticeable.

I have tried the punch from 7 to 10 and haven't noticed much if any difference. I can get it a little squirrelly on the back straight but it's an area of the track lighter on traction. Otherwise it's pretty manageable. 2wd buggy and some good sauced up tires on a clay track you can really lay on it.

The batteries are about a year old now - turnigy nano techs that are always stored properly and never ran to even the Lv cutoff. They might be the problem.

I think I might borrow someone's batteries and see if it's a battery issue.

Firmware: How were you able to verify the FW?? Have the LCD program box?? Ben wanting to know what FW rev is in the XeRun ESC's I got recently.

Punch: As stated earlier, not racer. Lotta open grassy areas at my apts, both Digger & the P4de run good in it. Put digger on pavement, peg the throttle it does donuts. Have to ease into the throttle to get it moving (rolling start) then can peg it.

The LCG mopar sits too low for the tall grass, that's carpet / pavement rig - that's why I wanna sell it. It too can get squirrelly in hurry, it’s a lite weight rig, bout 1.5lbs + running 23/86 gearing, no cogging what-so-ever. Wondering if street tires like the PL Road Rage might help get things under control or the Duratrax Picket ST 2.8's for carpet.

Borrowed the (3900Kv) motor from the LCG mopar to do testing in the P4de, was trying figure out what KV motor to get. Don't want a race truck, but don't want slow poke Rodriguez either. Ran like a maniac, wheelies galore, and plenty of donuts on pavement. Bumped the gearing up to a higher ratio (it was brushed outta the box & there geared really low). Better top end & no ill effects on the low end. Saw enough to tell me that a 3500~3600Kv motor would probably be bout right & sensored for smoother low-end.

I was blown away, did not expect a finned motor to do any good in a 4x4, specially one that weighs bout 5-1/2 lbs. There fine for the intended purpose… Bandits, Armma Raider, ECX Amp's & street rigs like the Vanterra street rods… http://www.vaterrarc.com/Products/De...rodId=VTR03032 and so on.

Batteries: The nano-techs are kinda a strange breed, people either love'em or hate'em; doesn't seem to be an in-between (based on what I've read on the forums). Don't think age is much of an issue when they've been stored correctly. I would think that the number of cycles through them would be more of a concern. As you've said several times, your a racer, so your packs get worked harder & cycled more often than mine.

While my LiPo's are bout 3yrs old, they didn't get used much till last summer. Didn't trust them, stayed with NiMH packs, now only run LiPo's.

Got no-name 2S 30c/45c packs off FleaBay 3yrs ago, 4 outta 7 are puffy. Got bout 15-mins runtime in the P4de (when it was brushed), little longer in the 2WD rigs. Also have a couple DuraTrax 5700mAh (25c) 2S packs that are 3yrs old, no puffing (stored @ 3.80~3.85v/c) & gave close to 30-mins runtime in brushed P4de.
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Last edited by MDK_187; 03-04-2016 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:55 PM
  #10363  
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Originally Posted by prosport
Anyone know how to make sure the BEC is doing it's job properly? I don't want to do something stupid and fry my HW esc. Thanks!
Question... why are you using an external BEC with an ESC that has a built in one??

It's common for RC boaters to use them when running 6s on a Seaking ESC that max'es out at 6s. Lotta guys recommend running an external BEC if running more than 4s in that situation so as to not overload the internal BEC.

BUT, where talking about a car/truck here. Only 6s trucks I'm aware of are the new ARMMA 1/8th scale rigs.

Running an external BEC with an ESC that has a built in one (regardless of brand), you need to remove the red wire from the ESC's receiver connector because the Rx will be getting it power from the external BEC. You'll want to plug the BEC's output into the BATT connector on your Rx - see attached wiring diagram.

Testing the BEC... I don't have any experience with external BEC's. However, logic would dictate that you plug it into power source; then use a DVM to measure the output across the red & black wires - the ones that plug into your receiver.

It's my understanding that external BEC's operate as stand-alone units, just another way of supplying power to the Rx. In the old days they used receiver battery packs - 4x AA batteries. BEC's weight a lot less than 4 batteries, that's why there now the preferred choice.

Hope that helps...
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:15 PM
  #10364  
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Yeah I borrowed a multifunction programmer and verified firmware. It shipped with the 509 already in it.

I have been on the nano tech love side. Probably 150 cycles on each of them and no puffing and no cells dying yet. cant check IR.

Not ready to up give up on the just - just wanted to see if anyone thought the justock would hold me back and it sounds like that won't be the case.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:32 PM
  #10365  
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Originally Posted by thecman26
The V3.1 looks sweet but $186? I'd just get an R10 Stock and pocket the $51....
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
you could be very wrong if you consider programming card price of hw and orion.
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