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Brushless Motor Rebuild / Upgrade

Old 10-27-2023, 04:35 PM
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Default Brushless Motor Rebuild / Upgrade

Preparing for winter maintenance and planning to refresh my vehicles 100%. With that said, I picked up a Hobbywing Tunalyzer for the motor rebuild and tuning for my first time. I plan to upgrade the bearings to hybrid ceramics, change screws to titanium, and re-shim the motor.

What is the verdict for carpet off-road on using PTFE / Teflon motor shims? I know theyíre used in the top of the line Fantom Works motors, but I see sparse comments about failure.
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Old 10-27-2023, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by shortcut3d
Preparing for winter maintenance and planning to refresh my vehicles 100%. With that said, I picked up a Hobbywing Tunalyzer for the motor rebuild and tuning for my first time. I plan to upgrade the bearings to hybrid ceramics, change screws to titanium, and re-shim the motor.

What is the verdict for carpet off-road on using PTFE / Teflon motor shims? I know they’re used in the top of the line Fantom Works motors, but I see sparse comments about failure.
You would be better off buying a new motor than spending the money on all those hop-ups. If you really want to know the strength of your motor, pick up a Rotor Master from WMHracing.com. On old motors, it's usually the rotor that needs to be updated.
Teflon doesn't last as long. When they get hot, they get soft.

These videos might help.

https://youtu.be/9AppiadUGos

https://youtu.be/1x1TKn_GJKM
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Old 11-03-2023, 07:21 AM
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I have been using teflon in my motors for a while now. I guess if you get them really hot 200 plus they might get soft, I do not get my motors that warm, usually at most 160 degrees, so I cannot confirm or refute the degree of softness. If you are starting off with tuning your motors, I would suggest using brass spacers, see where you timing and gearing is. Once your temps are good, you can always change over to teflon spacers and not have to worry.
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Old 11-03-2023, 12:12 PM
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Taking all the advice so far into account.

I already had Trinity Slot Machine Certified motors ready to replace HW G4s, but ďthingsĒ happened.

So Iím going to upgrade to Fantom Helix Works motors.

The HW G4s are still very serviceable, so I plan to tear them down for a good cleaning. Looks like they arenít really shimmed based on YouTube tear downs. I drop in some new Acer Ceramics and Titanium screws (about $30 total per motor).

For the HW G4s, is there a good amp target? The spec on the HW site has 4.1 amps and 3.7 amps for 13.5 and 17.5 respectively, which seems super low. Iíll test/tune for the sweet spot, but concerned it might run too hot.

Last edited by shortcut3d; 11-03-2023 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 11-03-2023, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by shortcut3d
Taking all the advice far into account.

I already had Trinity Slot Machine Certified motors ready to replace HW G4s, but ďthingsĒ happened.

So Iím going to upgrade to Fantom Helix Works motors.

The HW G4s are still very serviceable, so I plan to tear them down for a good cleaning. Looks like they arenít really shimmed based on YouTube tear downs. I drop in some new Acer Ceramics and Titanium screws (about $30 total per motor).

For the HW G4s, is there a good amp target? The spec on the HW site has 4.1 amps and 3.7 amps for 13.5 and 17.5 respectively, which seems super low. Iíll test/tune for the sweet spot, but concerned it might run too hot.
I have my HW G4 13.5 set to 47 degrees on the endbell. Don't remember the current value but it is fairly low.
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Old 11-03-2023, 11:46 PM
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Yesterday, I ordered a HW G4 17.5. I plan on putting it through all the same tests and my last motors. I'm curious on how well it will compete with the Surpass V6.
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Old 11-06-2023, 06:57 PM
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I tried using a multimeter to measure the amps on on of my HW Xerun V10 G4 17.5 motors today. It only pulled just over 1 amp. It peaked at 1.6 amps on trigger pull. Am I doing something wrong?
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Old 11-07-2023, 03:59 PM
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It will read different with an ESC. It also depends on how you are measuring it and from what point.
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Old 11-07-2023, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OffRoadJunkie
It will read different with an ESC. It also depends on how you are measuring it and from what point.
Iím used a Klein RMS Multimeter that is 10A current rated. I connected it in series with the ESC / battery using alligator clips. ESC positive lead to the positive 10A port. ESC negative lead to the battery negative. Battery positive to the comm port on the multimeter. Throttle control with the transmitter
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Old 11-08-2023, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by shortcut3d
Iím used a Klein RMS Multimeter that is 10A current rated. I connected it in series with the ESC / battery using alligator clips. ESC positive lead to the positive 10A port. ESC negative lead to the battery negative. Battery positive to the comm port on the multimeter. Throttle control with the transmitter

so, you wired it in-line with the battery? I'm not sure I'm reading this right. You should have the meter hooked up in-line with the positive lead on the battery. The negative wire, from the battery, should hook directly up to the ESC.
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Old 11-08-2023, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by OffRoadJunkie
so, you wired it in-line with the battery? I'm not sure I'm reading this right. You should have the meter hooked up in-line with the positive lead on the battery. The negative wire, from the battery, should hook directly up to the ESC.
It makes no difference which lead it's connected to. Kirchhoff's law, current in is current out.
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Old 11-08-2023, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by OffRoadJunkie
so, you wired it in-line with the battery? I'm not sure I'm reading this right. You should have the meter hooked up in-line with the positive lead on the battery. The negative wire, from the battery, should hook directly up to the ESC.
Correct. The ESC positive is going to the meter positive. The ESC negative is going to the battery negative.
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Old 11-08-2023, 01:29 PM
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It does not matter where in the circuit you insert the meter.
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Old 11-08-2023, 01:51 PM
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Do remember the signal will be chopped by pwm. This can cause all kinds of issues trying to read the current if it isn't correctly accounted for. Most likely, the meter is reading the pwm as a pseudo sine wave and giving you an rms reading, which will not be accurate.
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Old 11-08-2023, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by trilerian
Do remember the signal will be chopped by pwm. This can cause all kinds of issues trying to read the current if it isn't correctly accounted for. Most likely, the meter is reading the pwm as a pseudo sine wave and giving you an rms reading, which will not be accurate.
There's no PWM at full throttle. I've also never seen a meter do an RMS conversion when in DC mode.
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