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-   -   Is Sanwa M17 really 3 time better than Futuba 4PLS? (https://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-electronics/1042763-sanwa-m17-really-3-time-better-than-futuba-4pls.html)

Garet Jax 05-09-2019 06:49 PM

Is Sanwa M17 really 3 time better than Futuba 4PLS?
 
Futuba 4PLS $175
Sanwa M17 $515

It seems like the 4PLS is in a pretty sweet spot price wise. It is far more than a beginner radio and not far less than the M17. Please help me understand the value the of the M17. For a top notch racer, the extra speed is hard to come by, but for everyone else that $340 could be used in many places.

The Spektrum DX6R at $340 is an interesting play here too. Please help me position it in relation to the other two mentioned radios.

trigger 05-09-2019 08:34 PM

Futaba 7PX=$700.00:weird:

racknpinion 05-09-2019 10:55 PM

Dont forget the 4PLS is being discontinued and is nearing 6 years of being in constant production. If you are gonna make the comparison it might be more appropriate to look at the new T4PM.

I dont know if anyone can categorically say X radio is worth three or four times as much as radio Z, because it comes down to personal preference too. These TOL radios are not for everyone. They are statement products. Generally with new tech that will eventually(hopefully), filter down to lower tier models. But consider R&D along with new tech comes at a price. Whether that's justifiable to one person is gonna vary from user to user.

Roelof 05-09-2019 11:02 PM

The 4PLS has no fast respons system like Futaba SR, KO HCS and Sanwa SSR (and the M17 has now something faster)

To go a bit technical, the 4PLS can reach a maximum of 333Hz framerate and still uses a 1.5msec wide pulse. The fast respnse systems are using a 0.7msec (Futaba) and a 0.3msec (Sanwa/KO) which lowers the latency and al reach higher framerates, Sanwa SR almost 400Hz and Futaba SR 800Hz

Also Spektrum is still using a 1.5msec pulse and has a framerat of just 90Hz

And beside that, not to forget the cool factor of having an expensive transmitter with a color screen.

1/8 IC Fan 05-10-2019 12:07 AM

Id say comparing a midend radio 4pls series to a high end is moot point....they are not even in the same league. Considerring the 4pl that it is based on is almost 10 years old and the 4pls is 6. The programming alone is 100% more superior on the Sanwa hands down, the ability to adjust your Sanwa ESC over the radio is also great feature. The 4pls was and still is a good radio, but its 2019, and in terms of electronics old. Yes a higher end radio is heavy investment, but in the longrun it is a better tool, that opens up the options and range of possibilities. As stated if you want midend get a 4pv or MT44.

Dan 05-10-2019 06:57 AM

4PLS and M17? Like comparing a Honda Civic to a Porsche 911...

Look how much a typical racer spends over the course of a year switching cars constantly, batteries, race entries, etc.

A high end radio is worth the investment. Keep it for 4-6 years to spread the cost and you'll be fine. Buy once, cry once. :)

riceball777 05-10-2019 11:17 AM

I love my Futaba 7px. I use Futaba servos and run everything in sr mode. But if Iím quite honest with myself for a very non serious rare racer / basher like myself I mainly just like it for the cool touch screen factor and itís just nice having the latest and greatest. Itís nothing going to make a bad driver any better.

Di_spencer 05-10-2019 01:01 PM

Another benefit of the ergonomics of a more expensive radio. On the m17 you can adjust the wheel up, down, in out and even rotate it so it's not parallel with the trigger so that it feels exactly how you want it to. You can also adjust trigger placement and tension. While it's more important to some, everyone wants to as comfortable as possible with their equipment especially if you're racing a 45-60 mins nitro main.

Garet Jax 05-10-2019 11:30 PM

OK - I read through the entire Spectrum DX6R thread as well as the Sanwa M17 thread. I did not read through the Futuba 4PLS thread - I assumed that all the kinks have been worked out and that if there were major issues someone would have told me.

I so wanted the DX6R radio to be the bomb. Unfortunately, I came to the conclusion that Spektrum tried to do too much with their TOTL offering at the expense of not doing the important stuff well enough. The price point was so attractive especially with the $60 coupon for it at AMain.

So it really came down to the Futuba 4PLS and the M17. I know myself and having a discontinued, 6 year old radio was going to annoy me to no end so it really made the decision easy. The $25 off coupon helped to soften the blow a little.

So to answer my own question, no the M17 is not 3 times as good as the Futuba 4PLS, but it is 3 times the costs so suck it up

Thanks for all the comments.

Roelof 05-11-2019 12:19 AM

Again, in the hands of a good driver the SSR and the new SXR mode of the M17 will make a difference. The 4PLS has no comparable SR mode but the 7PX does as also the latest follow up of the 4PLS the T4PM.
But if you want to use these high speed modes you have a limited choice of expensive servo's

morgoth 05-11-2019 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by Roelof (Post 15446987)
The 4PLS has no fast respons system like Futaba SR, KO HCS and Sanwa SSR (and the M17 has now something faster)

To go a bit technical, the 4PLS can reach a maximum of 333Hz framerate and still uses a 1.5msec wide pulse. The fast respnse systems are using a 0.7msec (Futaba) and a 0.3msec (Sanwa/KO) which lowers the latency and al reach higher framerates, Sanwa SR almost 400Hz and Futaba SR 800Hz

Also Spektrum is still using a 1.5msec pulse and has a framerat of just 90Hz

And beside that, not to forget the cool factor of having an expensive transmitter with a color screen.

Do you know what the framerate and pulse width the M11x has? I'm still using that transmitter and I wonder how it compares to the new tech.

Roelof 05-11-2019 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by morgoth (Post 15447728)
Do you know what the framerate and pulse width the M11x has? I'm still using that transmitter and I wonder how it compares to the new tech.

I believe the M11x has no SSR mode so it will use the normal 1.5msec pulse. Regarding the framerate, I also do not know but if i has no need for special servo's it probably will not be higher than 333Hz

frewster 05-11-2019 01:38 PM

Roelof, do you know what one would need to measure latency? Maybe an oscilloscope?

Bry195 05-11-2019 07:17 PM


Originally Posted by frewster (Post 15447741)
Roelof, do you know what one would need to measure latency? Maybe an oscilloscope?

I know you directed this at Roelof but can you be more specific?

Mech movement at the transmitter versus mechanical movement at the servo?
transmitter signal to the receiver?
Receiver to the servo
receiver to mech output at servo?


frewster 05-11-2019 07:35 PM

Transmitter input to receiver output. No servo as that would be measuring the servo response time as well. I guess you could use a scope and wire one channel to the transmitter antenna and another to the receiver output. One of these days I need to get a scope.


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