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Old 06-06-2019, 12:58 PM
  #61  
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are you saying you cant tell the difference between .10ms? two servos , one with .13 and other with .03, youll be able to see the difference and it gives you more confidence when you do an action its faster.
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Old 06-06-2019, 01:09 PM
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0.10s is 100ms.
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Old 06-06-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by iplaygames View Post
are you saying you cant tell the difference between .10ms? two servos , one with .13 and other with .03, youll be able to see the difference and it gives you more confidence when you do an action its faster.
Servo transit times are usually rated as transit times to move 60degrees in seconds, so 0.10 seconds is a common servo rating. Milliseconds are the common measurement for latency in the radio system, with 1000 ms in a second. So to compare servos with a difference of 10ms, it would be down to noticing the diffference in transit time between a servo rated at .1313 seconds and another taking .1303 seconds.

Latency is different to transit time though, as latency is the delay time before the servo starts moving, and the transit time is how quickly it will move once receiving a signal.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by iplaygames View Post
are you saying you cant tell the difference between .10ms? two servos , one with .13 and other with .03, youll be able to see the difference and it gives you more confidence when you do an action its faster.
Yes, I have a hard time believing that anyone can tell a difference of 10 milliseconds (0.01 seconds) of response time.

Acording to a quick Google search, the average reaction time to visual stimulous for a human is 0.25 seconds. So you hit an odd bump or something on an off-road track, you can't respond nearly as fast as your radio anyway.

But as I said before, I only know my own experiences, and completely accept that I'm a crap driver, and that others just may be operating at a much higher level than myself. lol
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by iplaygames View Post
it does seem far fetched but there is a reason the m12/s is so popular, it really does give a more "connected" feeling. i believe its more to do with the Tech that is frequency hopping.

Like seriously give it a go, borrow a mt-44 or m12 and install in your own car. it will convert you. the only real problem is the weight of the m12s
My son has a M12S and I have a Futaba 4PLS, I have used his radio in races and I'm no convert. I personally think the menu system on the M12S is a pain in the rear; not saying Futaba is all that much better. The only thing that has had me looking at getting a sanwa was the receiver size. But now I'm looking at the Noble because they have small receivers as well and I won't go broke buying 2 of them.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:45 AM
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I'll be running two classes with my NB4 this weekend at RC Pro so I'll let ya'll know how that goes.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:33 PM
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Ok, thanks for all reactions and driving experiences on that, interesting.
My first concern wasn't the exact response time at all, but the difference in their official spec- so what then i should believe ?

Just for interest, i made some calculations with my very fast servo ( 0.005 sec/5ms for 60degree) and a speed on the straight of 50km/hour.
So goal is to find out how much distance the car travel during the "response time" to get an idea of the influence for driving...

ln metric units:
50km/hour are 50km/1hour are 50000m/1hour are 50000m/3600sec are 50000divided by 3600 are 13.9 meter per second !!
So 13.9 meter per second are 0.0139 meters per millisecond, or 1,39cm per millisecond or 0.547inch per millisecond.

When the "response time" difference is 10 ms, then the
car travel 10 times 1,39cm .............are 13.9 cm or
car travel 10 times 0.547 inches.....are 5.47 inches.

Independent of the servo time and the BIG "response time"( 100 to 350 ms) from the driver,
all what the driver WILL do and then the car DO,
happens that distance later.

Calculating very optimistic a servo time of 5ms and a driver time of 100ms, then the total calculation is:
a) With 3ms "response time" from the gun, plus 5ms from the servo, plus 100ms from the driver are 108ms total
b) Same but 13 ms "response time" are 118ms total

a) Distance 108 times 1.39cm are 150cm or 5.90 inches
b) Distance 118 times 1.39cm are 164cm or 6.45 inches

or rough calculate in percentage difference between a) and b), thats 9% longer distance.

So, there is an "advantage" as the car react 13.9cm or 5.47 inches further, before its hits the wall ;-) (Yes i know, a bad joke).
Serious speaking, the driver have to RECOGNIZE, that the car react now faster..
And all that times/distance are calculated with 50km/h or 31 miles/hour not with the average speed of the track.
So yes its an advantage if something happened what is out of the control chain
-eye and brain and muscles times of the driver,response time of the transmitter,response time of the reviver and servo, response time of the mass/weight forces of the car-.
When the driver recognize, that the total response time/distance is now "shorter" and he can handle that, its also a practical advantage however how big that is...

I guess the problem with drivers like me, the driver think ,after he recognized that he was missed agin the ideal race line,
-"oh" the reaction time of the "car" is so slow-(not mine of course),
and then he start to think over a faster transmitter, better tires and so on.
Looking deep in my side, i guess that was the real reason to start my search for a faster gun..BUT you never know(smile)

Thanks for all your responses - Robert

Last edited by dontknow; 06-07-2019 at 10:36 PM. Reason: add comment
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:28 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by dontknow View Post
Ok, thanks for all reactions and driving experiences on that, interesting.
My first concern wasn't the exact response time at all, but the difference in their official spec- so what then i should believe ?

Just for interest, i made some calculations with my very fast servo ( 0.005 sec/5ms for 60degree) and a speed on the straight of 50km/hour.
So goal is to find out how much distance the car travel during the "response time" to get an idea of the influence for driving...

ln metric units:
50km/hour are 50km/1hour are 50000m/1hour are 50000m/3600sec are 50000divided by 3600 are 13.9 meter per second !!
So 13.9 meter per second are 0.0139 meters per millisecond, or 1,39cm per millisecond or 0.547inch per millisecond.

When the "response time" difference is 10 ms, then the
car travel 10 times 1,39cm .............are 13.9 cm or
car travel 10 times 0.547 inches.....are 5.47 inches.

Independent of the servo time and the BIG "response time"( 100 to 350 ms) from the driver,
all what the driver WILL do and then the car DO,
happens that distance later.

Calculating very optimistic a servo time of 5ms and a driver time of 100ms, then the total calculation is:
a) With 3ms "response time" from the gun, plus 5ms from the servo, plus 100ms from the driver are 108ms total
b) Same but 13 ms "response time" are 118ms total

a) Distance 108 times 1.39cm are 150cm or 5.90 inches
b) Distance 118 times 1.39cm are 164cm or 6.45 inches

or rough calculate in percentage difference between a) and b), thats 9% longer distance.

So, there is an "advantage" as the car react 13.9cm or 5.47 inches further, before its hits the wall ;-) (Yes i know, a bad joke).
Serious speaking, the driver have to RECOGNIZE, that the car react now faster..
And all that times/distance are calculated with 50km/h or 31 miles/hour not with the average speed of the track.
So yes its an advantage if something happened what is out of the control chain
-eye and brain and muscles times of the driver,response time of the transmitter,response time of the reviver and servo, response time of the mass/weight forces of the car-.
When the driver recognize, that the total response time/distance is now "shorter" and he can handle that, its also a practical advantage however how big that is...

I guess the problem with drivers like me, the driver think ,after he recognized that he was missed agin the ideal race line,
-"oh" the reaction time of the "car" is so slow-(not mine of course),
and then he start to think over a faster transmitter, better tires and so on.
Looking deep in my side, i guess that was the real reason to start my search for a faster gun..BUT you never know(smile)

Thanks for all your responses - Robert
I checked your math lol

And yes, you are correct. basically at 50kmh, 10 milliseconds would equate to about 6" difference in travel distance. Just still feel like its kind of a moot point, if you barreling towards a wall, its also likely a corner, which means you likely also slowing down getting to it anyway, which meas the travel distance comparison is even smaller. That, and 6" is about 1/3 the length of my losi 10, which looking at from the top of a drivers stand across a track, looks pretty damn tiny sometimes, so almost seems like picking knits to me.

In the end I just think people should use whatever radio they feel most personally comfortable with, and try not to worry so much about the technical aspect of latency.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:03 AM
  #69  
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Careful using the current sensors if you're running higher than 6V to your RX. I learned the hard way that they are only good up to 6.5V in as I was running 8.4V and my RX crashed. I didn't even think to check if they could handle 8.4V and will unplug them today. Hopefully it will be fine and I can make a voltage divider or dropped when I have time so the RX and servo get 8.4V while the sensors get 6V.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:46 PM
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I think the sensors killed the RX running them at 8.4V. Must have been sending way too much power over the serial line. I tried putting my old RC4G in the ebuggy so I could run it and it's undrivable. I used to think that radio was quick but going from the NB4 the latency in the RC4G is huge. The car feels horrible driving with it.

So... more proof that this thing has very low latency and probably a high frame rate as well.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:17 AM
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You didn't have any other fgr4 or fgr4s receivers? My radios came with one of each, and I bought some extras.

According to listings on Amazon, the fgr4 can take 3.5v-18v, and the fgr4s can take 3.5-8.4.

I have about 6 fgr4s relievers, I might make a voltage drop plug thing for them, so I don't forget and drop a 3s on them lol
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MrOflam View Post
You didn't have any other fgr4 or fgr4s receivers? My radios came with one of each, and I bought some extras.

According to listings on Amazon, the fgr4 can take 3.5v-18v, and the fgr4s can take 3.5-8.4.

I have about 6 fgr4s relievers, I might make a voltage drop plug thing for them, so I don't forget and drop a 3s on them lol
I run it in two cars and didn't have a spare. It's the sensors that killed it. Worked fine at Lonestar without them.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by frewster View Post
I run it in two cars and didn't have a spare. It's the sensors that killed it. Worked fine at Lonestar without them.
So was it the voltage sensor that got you?
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MrOflam View Post
So was it the voltage sensor that got you?
​​​​​​
I am not sure. I had the voltage sensor to monitor pack voltage and the temp sensor for my motor in my ebuggy. The RX started having issues immediately after I installed them and ran them way over their max 6.5V input. Oops.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:26 PM
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I got those batteries that have built in charging today. So I took a minute to add one to the radio I messed up. The darn things turned out to be a tad longer than the ones that came in the noble. Nothing ever ends up being as easy as I think its going to be...



So, took a little bit of modifying, but I got it in there. So far all looks well. Also, I added a switch to this radio (at the end in the photo, center of the fake speaker), to stop the continuous charging cycle it likes to do when its off. Now when its off, its off.



Kind of a stupid work around, but at least it works lmao
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