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Sanwa MX6 vs. Futaba 3PV

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Sanwa MX6 vs. Futaba 3PV

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Old 03-08-2019, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by uDi_MP7.5 View Post
You won't notice the issue with slower response until you try a much faster unit and then try going back to the old one.
You've picked the two class-leading brands already, so you won't go wrong either way - but if response is your reason for doing this, then you'll want to step up to either the Sanwa MT-S or the Futaba 4PM.

This thread from condac gives some data on the practical improvement over FrSky / Flysky gear:
Radio Benchmark program and results.

Of the two, best performance will likely come from the MT-S if you want to limit servo budget or use existing digital servos.
The reason is that the MT-S offers its fastest response in its SHR mode, which is compatible with many good digital servos out there.
Futaba on the other hand will require you to purchase their own servos to use the SR mode, generally expensive.

In either case, you do have to make sure the radio comes with a receiver that actually supports the faster mode - the MT-S combo comes with the RX-482 (which supports FH4T SHR and SSR), while on the 4PM combo you have to select the higher cost combination with R334SBS (supports SR). If you buy the cheaper 4PM with R304 package it won't support the SR mode.

In both cases, you need to a) make sure your RX and servos are compatible with the faster response mode, and then b) actually select that mode, usually requiring a re-bind with the receiver afterwards.

To answer your other questions - the functional value is mostly in the response and reduced latency.
Other adjustments / settings, ergonomic features, fancy displays, telemetry etc add minimal functional benefit.
Telemetry is nice to troubleshoot things or analyse behaviour (eg. BEC voltage droop with higher power servos), but again no real benefit on surface vehicles.
Temperature info would be nice but you usually need different receivers to support those sensor inputs, if you really want things like that do your research as the box stock setup likely won't support it.

So my recommendations (in line with what racknpinion said):
Sanwa MT-S, RX-482
Futaba 4PM, R334SBS

As a sidenote, I'm yet to see any 3rd party test data of the actual TX/RX latency for Futaba SR in either the 4PM or 7PX.
Sanwa on the other hand has multiple published 3rd party tests, and at least so far has been ahead of Futaba in total average latency.
Personally if I was spending the extra for the 4PM/R334 combo, I'd be waiting for some 3rd party latency data.
Wow thanks for the amazing information for my newb self lol!

To make sure Iím understanding clearly......

Both systems are fast concerning latency. For even more speed though, the Sanwa MT-S RX482 will support SHR as long as itís a digital servo used? Whereas the Futaba Requires SR futaba servos and the R334SBS receiver?
Would the Futaba 4PM still be relatively fast on the R304SB receiver, just not SR compatible?

The price of the Sanwa MT-S is attractive too but the receivers for it offset that at almost double the price than a Futaba R304SB receiver
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Teeyo View Post
Wow thanks for the amazing information for my newb self lol!

To make sure I’m understanding clearly......
Both systems are fast concerning latency. For even more speed though, the Sanwa MT-S RX482 will support SHR as long as it’s a digital servo used? Whereas the Futaba Requires SR futaba servos and the R334SBS receiver?
Would the Futaba 4PM still be relatively fast on the R304SB receiver, just not SR compatible?
The price of the Sanwa MT-S is attractive too but the receivers for it offset that at almost double the price than a Futaba R304SB receiver


No worries.
To make it black and white, if you aren't going to utilise the fastest response mode on either set, then you're minimising the benefit of your upgrade.
If I were making this choice myself, I'd only choose the 4PM if I was going to get the R334SBS (for my primary car at least), as well as the Futaba SR servos so that I could actually enable and utilise the SR mode. I wouldn't just assume that the "normal" modes are particularly fast, compared to the Flysky for sure, but compared to the competition at the same pricepoint, no.

Regarding latency, there are numerous people here who convert the servo update/refresh rate (in Hz) into a latency value and pass it off as system latency, which is very misleading and not what latency really is. If you read the thread I linked by condac and read his posts deeper into the thread, it helps explain more clearly. Basically, you have a system latency between the TX input signal (your hands) and RX output signal (to the servo), and then another time period for the RX output to become a servo output. Condac's stick-to-servo numbers are a total value, the important number.

As I said, Futaba have been lagging behind Sanwa for quite some time in actual TX-to-RX latency. The latest version may be better, but there is no 3rd party data - until someone like condac measures a 7PX and 4PM, you just don't know. I would assume if you buy all the parts to enable SR mode correctly, then the response will be very good - but even that's an assumption and nothing more.

If you choose the MT-S, there are plenty of other compatible RXs including genuine (471, 472, 481, 482 - the 47x have small antenna wires while the 48x don't, the xx2 signifies telemetry) and aftermarket options which you can search here for. I'd use the included 482 in your primary race vehicle and cheaper ones elsewhere. The benefit of the Sanwa regarding response is that there's 3rd party verified data on the M12/S and MT-4S, and the MT-S in SHR mode should (according to Nezil) match the MT-4S in SHR mode.

Re: Futaba latency being "relatively fast outside of SR mode", my answer is no, but for you maybe it'll still be pretty good. Honestly, in my book the jury is out even with SR mode. The drag on Futaba gear is their "worst case" RX-to-TX latency has for a long time been worse than Sanwa. I'd want to see a significant (verified) improvement there before buying their new gear. Check out condac's thread, he also has more posts elsewhere on the topic including histograms showing the data spread, if you're interested in this stuff it's eye opening. The max column using R304SB shows what I'm talking about.
Originally Posted by condac View Post
But looking at what happens and how fast it does things it is clear that update rate is not everything, from the time you move the steering until the correct signal is at the servo it have already sent 2-5 updates that are wrong until it have the latest signal. So Futaba have alot of room for improvement here, and other radio manufactures might do things quicker.


Regarding regular digital servos on SHR - 384Hz is a fairly high input framerate, I know for a fact that both Futaba and Sanwa digital servos will happily accept this, and probably most other good brands - but I can't speak for what I haven't tried. If you post which digital servos you are running or intend to run I'm sure someone can help.

If you can find reasonably priced extra receivers for the Sanwa, I think the MT-S will offer the best response performance on a budget.
I own systems and servos from both Futaba and Sanwa, I'd use both before any other brand - but until I see data to prove otherwise, Futaba takes 2nd place in the total-response-speed game. It's a tough pill to swallow when they are the premium brand (with pricing to match) and this is actually why I now own both brands - used to be exclusively Futaba.

Just my experience, I'm sure you'll be very happy with either system regardless.

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Old 03-08-2019, 10:40 AM
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Thanks for the help uDi and everyone else! Going with the Sanwa MT-S! It will be all I will need in a radio. But man that Futaba 4pm is a sexy looking radio for sure!
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Teeyo View Post
Thanks for the help uDi and everyone else! Going with the Sanwa MT-S! It will be all I will need in a radio. But man that Futaba 4pm is a sexy looking radio for sure!
You will like it a lot, my son loves his, and its easy to program too. Congrats.
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