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Motor soldering and Trinity 21.5 setting questions

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Motor soldering and Trinity 21.5 setting questions

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Old 01-10-2019, 03:30 AM
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Default Motor soldering and Trinity 21.5 setting questions

Hi guys. Two questions:
1) I think using plugs instead of direct soldering is more practical (to me). But the soldering tab of Trinity Monster is very narrow. Speaking about current flow and efficency, In your opinion, is this plug soldering ok? Would you solder wires directly or it doesn't matter?


2) I was setting my Trinity 21.5, but I'm new to this kind of motor. From the motor checker, I got there parameters: 2.800kv and 6amps. More or less 53° timing (on the can). It would be a good starting point?

Thanks, Andrea
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:30 AM
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Most people prefer a direct connection to the motor.

As far as timing, I've found right around 50 degrees to be ideal.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dave-man View Post
Most people prefer a direct connection to the motor.

As far as timing, I've found right around 50 degrees to be ideal.
I noticed most people prefer direct connection, just wondering if It really makes difference...
By the way, my soldering tab has a little play...does it affect my motor perfomarnce?
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:43 AM
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I use the same connectors and the motor performs just the same lap times didn’t show any difference and as fast as timing for the 21.5 I use a hair under the 50 mark.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jakelamotta View Post
I noticed most people prefer direct connection, just wondering if It really makes difference...
By the way, my soldering tab has a little play...does it affect my motor perfomarnce?
By adding a connector you are probably increasing the resistance. If (or how much) that matters, I don't know.

My tabs are somewhat loose as well. I have three motors that way so I assume it's normal.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:18 AM
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If you're gonna use bullets on the motor, I would make sure they are the split end style where you can use a phillips head screwdriver to pry the end apart to get more tension as they tend to collapse over time and will eventually get a poor connection which will increase your resistance and lose power in the form of heat.

I don't have much experience with 21.5T motors lately as I haven't raced any on-road classes in a while. I do have a fair amount of experience with Trinity 13.5T motors where Trinity recommends setting the timing to 5.6A of current draw. The timing is a variable where no 2 motors will read the same and the digital reading of the timing is almost always different. Earlier this week I helped a local racer setup a 17.5T Trinity motor and we set it up for 5.6A draw which worked extremely well, the 3 phases gave a reading of 48°-49°-50° with an average of 49°. The end bell looked more like it was reading closer to 47° but we know the digital reading is far more accurate. Since each phase was within 1° of each other, this meant that we didn't need to make any changes to the shim between the rotor and the sensor board. Main reason Trinity recommends 5.6A is to get the max potential power draw along with the greatest amount of efficiency out of their motors. You can certainly increase the timing higher, but you more than likely will not get any more speed out of it, you will however increase your temps and reduce efficiency. Since the 5.6A setting works great for both 13.5T and 17.5T motors, I suspect it will be the same for the 21.5T motor as well.

To play it safe, I would contact Trinity and explain that you're trying to tune for RPM on a touring car, I have been tuning for torque with off-road buggy, I am not certain that the tuning will be the same or not.

Good Luck!
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:29 AM
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Thanks Marcos, Dave and Bill. Thank guys!
Today I played a little bit to fine the right tuning point.
At the end, I got those values from motor checker:


But…in the next race (will be my 1st in 21.5T class, I used to race13.5) the maximum timing allowed will be 50 deg. To get those values, as you can see in the picture, I set 53-54 deg timing on the can.
Before the race, the inspector will check any motor with a digital tester to read and “lock” the timing at 50 deg.
To make the long story short: I know that the timing on can is never accurate, so I don’t know If I’m inside the rules.
Anyway, I struggled a bit with motor shimming. I found a long spacer (like a cilinder) in the pinion side of the rotor, and two little copper (brass?) shims in the sensor board side.
In the brushed era (from wich I came…) we used to rotate the rotor, and shim the two sides in order to let a little play.
I suppose now is different and the shims are related to timing adjustement.
How come can I get a proper setting? Ps I have a copper rotor inside the motor.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:12 AM
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I am not an expert on shimming the rotor, all I have heard from some YouTube videos that I've seen on motor tuning is that you know the gap is good so long as each of the timing readings are within 1° of each other. All I have ever done is move the 0.1mm shims around to either make the gap larger or more narrow between the sensor board and the rotor, always keeping the same amount of shims total, I just place them on the end bell side or the pinion side respectively. Some motors come with thicker 0.2mm, 0.3mm or up to 0.5mm spacers and I will measure and replace with thinner 0.1 spacers if necessary. Sometimes I've moved the spacers around 5-6 times before I finally got a good reading on the 3 phase timing check. I also make sure there is at least 0.1mm gap between the sensor board and the rotor, I have seen some motors (not from Trinity) that have the rotor binding on the sensor board out of the box!

I also make it a point to apply fresh thread lock (gel based) to all metal fasteners on every motor I touch, seen too many local racers drop a brand new motor in a car and lose an end bell on the very first race day, sometimes destroying their brand new motor, ouch
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:26 AM
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Thanks! I suppose I have to work on it. There is a noticable gap in the pinion side and no space in the board side (I can pull the rotor from the pinion side but I cant' push it). Even If i remove the the little shims in the sensor side, I cannot push the rotor from pinion to sensord board side
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:32 AM
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I don't think I've ever paid any attention to pulling on the shaft of the motor, I just go off what the analyzer tells me is good (or not). If I get a solid reading out of the box, then I don't waste any time messing with the gap, though it wouldn't hurt just to make sure there is no binding between the rotor and the sensor board
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jakelamotta View Post
Thanks Marcos, Dave and Bill. Thank guys!
Today I played a little bit to fine the right tuning point.
At the end, I got those values from motor checker:


But…in the next race (will be my 1st in 21.5T class, I used to race13.5) the maximum timing allowed will be 50 deg. To get those values, as you can see in the picture, I set 53-54 deg timing on the can.
Before the race, the inspector will check any motor with a digital tester to read and “lock” the timing at 50 deg.
To make the long story short: I know that the timing on can is never accurate, so I don’t know If I’m inside the rules.
Anyway, I struggled a bit with motor shimming. I found a long spacer (like a cilinder) in the pinion side of the rotor, and two little copper (brass?) shims in the sensor board side.
In the brushed era (from wich I came…) we used to rotate the rotor, and shim the two sides in order to let a little play.
I suppose now is different and the shims are related to timing adjustement.
How come can I get a proper setting? Ps I have a copper rotor inside the motor.
They require restricted timing on open motor selection? I don't see why they'd bother with a rule like that, it's just more work to police for no gain.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
They require restricted timing on open motor selection? I don't see why they'd bother with a rule like that, it's just more work to police for no gain.
It's a completely new category: Italian GT. EFRA List motors, fdr 4 and 50 max timing. I know, the last two rules don't make sense. I tried to explain to organizer that fixed timing and fdr make sense only with the same motor...but he didnt change the rule
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:31 PM
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I think the limitations in the FDR and Timing is a great way to create a specification for mechanical power. The weight and FDR=a torque. The timing=max rpm. You may find that esc/motor combos are very close when setup this way.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:53 PM
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You'll have a higher kv rating and rpm if you fully charge your battery before you test. Personally I like to have a fully charged battery every time I test a motor so that I can have a benchmark.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bry195 View Post
I think the limitations in the FDR and Timing is a great way to create a specification for mechanical power. The weight and FDR=a torque. The timing=max rpm. You may find that esc/motor combos are very close when setup this way.
Different motors have different timing and gearing requirements. One of my motors likes to be geared at 3.3 with 52 degrees timing, and my other one likes 3.8 with 48 degrees timing. I know which one i wouldn't be able to use competitively under those rules.
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