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Old 11-07-2018, 03:37 PM
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Default Icharger 4010 power supply

What power supply are you guys running to give this it's full potential..looking to hit batteries at 40amps charging and also grabbing the discharge bank to discharge at 40amps..wanna hit these batteries hard for 17.5 racing.thx!
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:11 PM
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not sure if this helps:
Progressiverc.com pairs this powersupply with the 4010
https://www.progressiverc.com/mean-w...er-supply.html

However if run on 120VAC, it is limited to "only" 1500 Watts. That is still a lot of power.

What batteries are you planning to charge? How many Cells (s-number) and capacity?

2S batteries only need about 340 watts to charge at 40 amps so even running both channels at 40 amps only needs about 700 watts. 4S would needs twice that but 1500 Watts covers that. It is only if you get up to 6S batteries at full current on both channels that you need more than 1500 Watts.
Here is the combo if you don't already have the 4010:
https://www.progressiverc.com/the-du...00w-combo.html

40 amps is a lot for any one battery. If you have 6000mAh packs, 40 amps would be charging at 6.6C.... way too much. Although some batteries claim you can charge them at 5C, I would not do it. 2C or 3C is about as hot as I would go. 3C for a 6000mAh is only 18 amps. So unless you are parallel charging multiple large packs on one channel, it is hard to see how you can use 40 amps. That is why I asked what you are planning on charging.
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
not sure if this helps:
Progressiverc.com pairs this powersupply with the 4010
https://www.progressiverc.com/mean-w...er-supply.html
Holy crap - who is paying $350 for a power supply?

Try these guys - https://www.rlpower.net/collections/power-supplies

95% of the racers I know are using somebodies version of the HP server 75 amp power supply. I used to buy them off EBay for $18 - 20 and modify them for a couple of bucks. That was before the bit coin guys bought them all up for their mining rigs and the prices got ridiculous. You can still get the 65 amp versions for $25 or so and it's easy to make them work. Or you can buy one ready to go for about $60.
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by belewis01 View Post
Holy crap - who is paying $350 for a power supply?

Try these guys - https://www.rlpower.net/collections/power-supplies

95% of the racers I know are using somebodies version of the HP server 75 amp power supply. I used to buy them off EBay for $18 - 20 and modify them for a couple of bucks. That was before the bit coin guys bought them all up for their mining rigs and the prices got ridiculous. You can still get the 65 amp versions for $25 or so and it's easy to make them work. Or you can buy one ready to go for about $60.
I looked at your source. Here is the issue. High power chargers like the 4010 will not output full power with a 12VDC. You need higher voltage. All the supplies from that place are max 12 Volts. If you look at the specs for the 4010, it has a maximum input current rating of 65 amps. So at 12 volts, the maximum power is 12*65=780 watts. Even at 24 volts, the maximum power is 1560 Watts, not quite maximum 2000 watts. So you need a 36VDV or even better, a 48 VDC supply.

You will see that the supply I linked is 48 volts. There are various sources for less expensive supplies. My self and others have used this guy
feathermerchantrc.com

You will see that he has 24 VDC options including a 100 amp model. But his 24VDC supplies are two 12VDC connected in series. This is ok as long as the DC output terminals "float" i.e. are not grounded to the supply case. You can get into some safety/shock issues if you series connect supplies that don't have floating outputs. I assume that Feathermerchant is supplying safe series connections. So if you are content with 1500Watts, you can get a 24 VDC supply from him and save some money.

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Old 11-08-2018, 02:09 PM
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rhodesengr - appreciate your detailed explanations - it is obvious you are way more technically skilled than I am. That said - I am at the track 6+ times a month, for the past 2 years. I have raced at 5 - 6 different tracks over those 2 years, racing both off road and on road. I have never seen anyone running more than 12V power supplies, yet I guarantee you, people are charging and discharging at 40 amps with I-Charger 4010, especially 17.5 off road buggies. Hard on batteries for sure, but some think it is worth it.

Note that the majority of racing is 2S - so by your calculation above - 340 watts?

And your suggestion of Feather Merchant is spot on as well - they are a big supplier for the airplane and drone guys, where 4-6S is common. And if running 24V+ the grounding concern is very real. I would never DIY a 24V system without fully understanding the grounding issue.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by belewis01 View Post
Holy crap - who is paying $350 for a power supply?

Try these guys - https://www.rlpower.net/collections/power-supplies

95% of the racers I know are using somebodies version of the HP server 75 amp power supply. I used to buy them off EBay for $18 - 20 and modify them for a couple of bucks. That was before the bit coin guys bought them all up for their mining rigs and the prices got ridiculous. You can still get the 65 amp versions for $25 or so and it's easy to make them work. Or you can buy one ready to go for about $60.
This is exactly right. I had one of the very first Icharger 4010 In the US when they came out and since Ive owned every new Icharger model they have made. This power supply will allow you to charge two 2s packs at 40 amps each at the same time with no issues. I do it regularly if I want to charge that hard.

EA
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by belewis01 View Post
yet I guarantee you, people are charging and discharging at 40 amps with I-Charger 4010.
Well the OP said "full potential". That is 2000 Watts and requires Way more than 12V. Note that I asked him to clarify what batteries he was planning to charge because I had the feeling he didn't really mean 2000Watts.

2S batteries need a lot less power. 8 volts times 40 amps is 320 watts. Times two for both channels is 640 watts. If the HP supply is 12V at 75 amps, that is 900 Watts. Except the 4010 has that 65 Amp input limit so 12V at 65 amps is 780 Watts. That is still enough (more than 640 watts) to run the 4010 at 40 amps (both side) for 2S batteries.

It is true I am an electrical engineer but everything above came from the one formula for Power. P=I*V. Sometimes you also need Ohms Law V=I*R when you talk about battery resistance. Those two formulas get you a long way.

I am still wondering what batteries you guys are charging at 40 amps into a single battery if that is what you are doing.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
Well the OP said "full potential". That is 2000 Watts and requires Way more than 12V. Note that I asked him to clarify what batteries he was planning to charge because I had the feeling he didn't really mean 2000Watts.
Nope - he meant 2S for 17.5 - probably off road buggies or on road touring cars.

Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
It is true I am an electrical engineer .......
No, really?

Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
I am still wondering what batteries you guys are charging at 40 amps into a single battery if that is what you are doing.
So, if it's off road, 2S shorty packs typically between 4000 to 6000 mah. On road, also 2S hard packs, between 5000 and 8500 mah. The idea is warmer batteries have lower IR. It's illegal to physically heat up the batteries, ( like with a hair dryer ) and external temp is only allowed to be a few degrees above ambient, so a hard discharge / charge cycle at 40 amps does the same thing. And yes it's also illegal to charge above 1C - but nobody checks.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by belewis01 View Post
so a hard discharge / charge cycle at 40 amps does the same thing. And yes it's also illegal to charge above 1C - but nobody checks.
I see. Well discharging at 40 amps probably does more to warm up a battery than charging but you guys have more experience with that sort of thing. Discharging at 40 amps is fine. Charging those sizes at 40 amps sounds risky but if you get away with it then that's the bottom line.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:20 PM
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17.5 2s packs nd touring car 2s packs.4 to 8k mah.this is all kinda new to me but yea I see guys charging packs at 40amps.that being said..so a 12v 1250watt power supply will allow me to charge 2 2s 4000mah packs at 40amps?
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by crustang302 View Post
that being said..so a 12v 1250watt power supply will allow me to charge 2 2s 4000mah packs at 40amps?
Follow along so you can figure out for yourself down the road.
2S is 2 times 4.2 volts per cell at full charge so 8.4 volts. But just use 8Volts for round numbers.
Power=volts*amps
8 Volts * 40 amps =320 Watts. tImes 2 for two batteries is 640 watts so 1250Watts is more than enough.

But we have to check in input current limit which for the 4010 is 65 amps

use the formula backwards Amps=Watts/Volts using 12 volts for the power supply. 640 Watts/12 Volts= 53.3 amps which is less than the 65amp limit.

So bottom line yes.

However, 40 amps into a 4000mAh battery is a 10C charge rate which is WAAAY over the usual safe rate of 2 or 3C. 3C would be 12amps (3 times 4 amps).

But if that is the common practice to try to get the IR down a little, then do what you do but sounds hazardous to me.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:26 PM
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It's not just charging at 40 amps - it's discharge at 40 amps, followed by charge at 40 amps. You will need 1 channel for the discharge and 1 channel for the charge. So you would not be charging 2 batteries at the same time with 1 charger.

You should talk to the guys you see charging at 40 amps, honestly, very few drivers can exploit the benefits.
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Old 11-11-2018, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
Follow along so you can figure out for yourself down the road.
2S is 2 times 4.2 volts per cell at full charge so 8.4 volts. But just use 8Volts for round numbers.
Power=volts*amps
8 Volts * 40 amps =320 Watts. tImes 2 for two batteries is 640 watts so 1250Watts is more than enough.

But we have to check in input current limit which for the 4010 is 65 amps

use the formula backwards Amps=Watts/Volts using 12 volts for the power supply. 640 Watts/12 Volts= 53.3 amps which is less than the 65amp limit.

So bottom line yes.

However, 40 amps into a 4000mAh battery is a 10C charge rate which is WAAAY over the usual safe rate of 2 or 3C. 3C would be 12amps (3 times 4 amps).

But if that is the common practice to try to get the IR down a little, then do what you do but sounds hazardous to me.
Been charging that way for two years. Onroad TC. Never had issues. I just use good quality cells(not turnigy or hobbyking crap) and a lipo sack. Deep cycling is ideal for spec racing but not needed for modified.
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:30 PM
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I'm no engineer, but according to engineers I know using modded power supplies is silly. (when proper power supplies are available)

I use a cheap 48 volt 1200 watt test power supply. clean voltage, just works. Plug and play. It's kinda ugly, if I wanted I could wrap it or paint it.


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Old 11-14-2018, 10:06 PM
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Don't know why you would call them silly. They are real power supplies designed and built by HP to run the network servers you rely on to do your banking, buy stuff online, store your medical records, etc.. They are compact, light weight and incredibly reliable. You can buy a fully built 1000 watt supply for about $70, or you can buy a 750 watt supply on EBay for about $25 and mod it your self for about $10 and 1/2 hour of your time.

Go to any race track and you will see 90% of the drivers use this type of supply.
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