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-   -   Educumate Me on Batteries (https://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-electronics/1027155-educumate-me-batteries.html)

BugleBoy10 10-04-2018 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by rhodesengr (Post 15311169)
Assuming you are running 2S...

Yes, sorry, that would be 2S.


Originally Posted by rhodesengr (Post 15311169)
You are using very little of your capacity. Hard to believe really but that is consistent with you saying you can run for an hour.

That would be the SCT, which is a stock SC10 with the sensorless 3300kv system. Would I be correct in assuming sensorless uses less amps? The blinky buggy uses a bit more, but not much. I'm not an aggressive driver (yet).


Originally Posted by rhodesengr (Post 15311169)
25C seems a bit low but your average current must also be very low based on how little you run your batteries down.

If my math and understanding are correct, that would be about 125 amps max, which is plenty above what most of these cars draw. Or am I misunderstanding something?


Originally Posted by rhodesengr (Post 15311169)
You could go to a lower capacity but only if you wanted to lower the full-up weight.

I was mostly looking to save time running or discharging the batteries down, and maybe save some $$$, but maybe I shouldn't be so stingy. I really should weigh my car just for a tuning base, but the track doesn't check so I haven't bothered.

rhodesengr 10-04-2018 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by BugleBoy10 (Post 15311250)
If my math and understanding are correct, that would be about 125 amps max, which is plenty above what most of these cars draw. Or am I misunderstanding something?

Please go back and read my first post, post #6. The issue is not maximum allowed current. The issue is voltage drop due to the IR. That robs voltage and therefore power from your motor. But like I said before if your batteries are barely getting warm, then your actual current is so low that your battery is good enough. I just think that in general, 25C is just on the low side, not because of the possible max current but because of the actual IR. You should get a charger that measures IR. It is really the only true way to compare batteries. C can be marketing B.S. while IR is real and measurable.

You are correct that a lower capacity battery will charge and discharge in less time. You could probably live with less capacity because you are barely making a dent in your 5000's but you may or may not like the lower weight.


BugleBoy10 10-04-2018 04:28 PM

I think that makes sense. I just thought there would be a point somewhere that the overall IR is low enough that reducing it even more would not make a difference. These are fairly new batteries still, so I'll see if they start getting warm as they age.


Originally Posted by rhodesengr (Post 15311271)
You should get a charger that measures IR.

Yeah, I was disappointed to find out that Protek made a mistake in the user manual for their Prodigy 66 Duo. It lists IR as one of its functions, but actually does not do that. I found a Tenergy 5-in-1 battery checker that does IR for $15. Most of the other functions seem useless on it, but for $15, I think that's better (at least for now) than dumping my almost new charger to drop a couple bills on a new one.

rhodesengr 10-04-2018 05:04 PM

well I don't know how good that Tenergy unit is. Might be fine. I have a Protek 625 Due which I like a lot. It seems to measure IR while doing charaging but it was North of $200. I know the ichargers measure IR as seperate function. I have both an i106 and an I306B. But they don't come with power supplies so you would at least need to run them from a 3S lipo. You might consider one of the ISDT chargers likes this one:
https://www.progressiverc.com/isdt-q6-lite.html
It measures IR. I have this older model which is still available and also measure IR
https://www.amainhobbies.com/isdt-sc...AaAk0-EALw_wcB

I run it either with a small 12V Lead Acid battery I have or an old 6S 4000 i had laying around. I mostly use it to charge smaller batteries like RX batteries I have in my gliders. So for a little more, you can have a nice second charger that will also measure IR. You can of course connect it to a bigger battery or DC power supply and run it at full capacity.

rhodesengr 10-04-2018 05:18 PM

you can also look around for chargers with "regenerative discharge". My Protek has this feature but I have never used it. I believe you have to run it from a chargable battery to use that feature. It has a higher discharge rate because the energy goes into charging the power source battery rather than heat in a resistor. So you can connect it to a car battery for example. I have a smaller 14 AH deep cycle battery that I use with my ISDT which would work good. But it wasn't cheap either.

BugleBoy10 10-04-2018 06:01 PM

Thanks again. That 106B+ looks tempting with the 7a discharge current on top of the IR readings. I actually have a Pyramid PS26KX (22a 6-15v adjustable) power supply running my slot car track at home. Would that work? I wouldn't drag that thing to the track and back, but it would give me IR readings and quicker discharge at home.

rhodesengr 10-04-2018 11:20 PM


Originally Posted by BugleBoy10 (Post 15311335)
Thanks again. That 106B+ looks tempting with the 7a discharge current on top of the IR readings. I actually have a Pyramid PS26KX (22a 6-15v adjustable) power supply running my slot car track at home. Would that work? I wouldn't drag that thing to the track and back, but it would give me IR readings and quicker discharge at home.

Your power supply is fine but the 7amps discharge current is a bit deceptive. I have owned a 106B for like 6 years and it is a good charger but to get those high current discharges you need an external resistor. This is what I was talking about before. Look at page 18 of the manual
https://www.progressiverc.com/media/...+%20Manual.pdf
You will need something like a 1 ohm power resistor rated at a minimum of 50 watts for a 2S battery. I used a 1 ohm 225W Ohmite resistor. It is about a foot long and 1 inch in diameter. You can buy that sort of thing at Digikey or Newark. But I rarely do it because its a pain. This is why the IDST standalone discharge has become popular. I think the regenerative method is better but then you need a bigger lipo or Lead Acid battery to charge back into.

gigaplex 10-04-2018 11:43 PM


Originally Posted by rhodesengr (Post 15311169)
Assuming you are running 2S that works out to 4.1 and 4.05 Volts per cell. Since I deal with everything from 1S to 12S between airplanes, helicopters, and cars, it is easier for me to think in terms of volts per cell. So again assuming your batteries are 2S, 8.4V is fully charged. You are using very little of your capacity. Hard to believe really but that is consistent with you saying you can run for an hour. 25C seems a bit low but your average current must also be very low based on how little you run your batteries down. You could go to a lower capacity but only if you wanted to lower the full-up weight. That would improve acceleration but might reduce traction. Nothing is simple and everything is trade-offs. Always look up the weight of a battery when considering choices. The higher C batteries do tend to be heavier.



The problem with DIY discharger is that they have no safety features like stopping at a certain voltage or doing any balancing. Just something for the OP to keep in mind. You definitely do not want to ever discharge a lipo below 3V/cell as that can really damage a battery.

That depends on how skilled you are at electronics ;)

Roelof 10-05-2018 12:16 AM


Originally Posted by rhodesengr (Post 15311169)

The problem with DIY discharger is that they have no safety features like stopping at a certain voltage or doing any balancing. Just something for the OP to keep in mind. You definitely do not want to ever discharge a lipo below 3V/cell as that can really damage a battery.

Why are still people whing about no balancing due discharging? As if running in your car balancing is happening.....
Most important is that all cells are individual checked and the discharging stops when one of them has reached the lowest voltage first. The SkyRC is not doing that.


Originally Posted by gigaplex (Post 15311480)
That depends on how skilled you are at electronics ;)

Yep, my 10-60A (in 10A steps adjustable) homebrew discharger works awesome.

BugleBoy10 10-05-2018 07:38 AM


Originally Posted by gigaplex (Post 15311480)
That depends on how skilled you are at electronics ;)


Originally Posted by Roelof (Post 15311484)
Yep, my 10-60A (in 10A steps adjustable) homebrew discharger works awesome.

That's nice, but the starter of this thread barely knows how to solder his electronics into the car, so all remedial help is appreciated. Heck, he wouldn't have needed to start this thread if he knew what you geniuses know.

DesertRat 10-05-2018 08:55 AM

Heres a good tip: Don't store batteries out in the hot garage, and don't store them charged. If you can, store them at about 50% charge and in a fridge.

BugleBoy10 10-05-2018 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by DesertRat (Post 15311645)
Heres a good tip: Don't store batteries out in the hot garage, and don't store them charged. If you can, store them at about 50% charge and in a fridge.

That actually brings up a question. I live in the San Fernando Valley, so they definitely get stored indoors and not in the garage. However, I take my stuff in my car to work and then leave for the race from there. Is that 8 hours in the hot trunk every week doing damage? I could just swing by home after work at the cost of losing about 30 minutes of practice if need be.

billdelong 10-05-2018 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by DesertRat (Post 15311645)
Heres a good tip: Don't store batteries out in the hot garage, and don't store them charged. If you can, store them at about 50% charge and in a fridge.

I would only store them in the fridge for long term storage. It's very important to let packs stored in a fridge to acclimate before putting a charge on them. Voltage will inherently go up as temps go up... so if you charge a chilled pack before it has "defrosted", then the voltage will spike beyond 4.20V/cell and risk causing damage as the pack warms to ambient temps.


Originally Posted by BugleBoy10 (Post 15311664)
That actually brings up a question. I live in the San Fernando Valley, so they definitely get stored indoors and not in the garage. However, I take my stuff in my car to work and then leave for the race from there. Is that 8 hours in the hot trunk every week doing damage? I could just swing by home after work at the cost of losing about 30 minutes of practice if need be.

It's extremely important to never leave your packs in a hot car, temps can easily get up to 160°+ and cause your packs to swell. On Wednesday's I like to pack all my gear in my car as well, but I bring a case with my charger and batteries to store under my desk at work. About an hour before I get off work, I'll charge my packs then store the case in the front seat of my car with the A/C vent blowing directly on the case on my way to the track.

Here's the case that I use:
https://www.harborfreight.com/18-in-...ase-62271.html


rhodesengr 10-05-2018 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by BugleBoy10 (Post 15311664)
Is that 8 hours in the hot trunk every week doing damage?.

Well potentially to your car, as in burning it to the ground. 2S 5000's are pretty good size batteries and would probably destroy your car if they burst. But why not just put them in a cooler with some ice. A decent cooler can easily go 8 hours in a hot car. Obviously put the batteries in something waterproof or make sure they stay above the melted water.

Dude, I used to like in Encino on Texhoma near WhIte Oak.

gigaplex 10-06-2018 03:11 AM


Originally Posted by BugleBoy10 (Post 15311664)
That actually brings up a question. I live in the San Fernando Valley, so they definitely get stored indoors and not in the garage. However, I take my stuff in my car to work and then leave for the race from there. Is that 8 hours in the hot trunk every week doing damage? I could just swing by home after work at the cost of losing about 30 minutes of practice if need be.

Absolutely yes, that'll toast them pretty quick.


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